Just a few questions

Just a question for my fellow 2A allies:

What is the very first rule in the handling of a firearm when someone hands it to you?

We all know what that answer is, but I have been shaking my head at the testimony in this Alec Baldwin trial. A man who is staunchly anti 2A but makes his living handling and using firearms in a make believe business. So somehow someone hands you a firearm and tells you it is safe so you draw that firearm, cock it, aim it at the head of someone and then pull the trigger and somehow it is the fault of person who handed it to you??

Another question: WHAT WAS LIVE AMMO DOING ON A MOVIE SET??

I love watching these so-called “Firearms Experts” telling you that it was the fault of someone else other than the person who pulled the trigger. In my opinion he should never be allowed to handle a firearm again.

Last question: IF AN ACTOR IS CONVICTED OF A FELONY, WOULDN’T THAT PREVENT HIM FROM POSSESSING A FIREARM? ACTING OR NOT. WOULD THE MERE USE OF A FIREARM IN A MOVIE BE A CRIME?

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Not familiar with NM but in CA,
Involuntary manslaughter with gun enhancements :point_left:t2:

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It’s rare, my understanding, for the firearms used in movies to be real firearms. I’m sure there would be no issues with a prohibited person using a mock-firearm in a movie. They’d just have to be the fakes and not the real thing. Blank firing replicas, whatever

But yeah, first rule for handing firearms…both parties personally inspect the condition of the firearm themselves in their own hands even if they just watched the other already do it

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At bare minimum its negligent homicide. I personally think Baldwin is an entitled prick with anger issues who likes to put his hands on people, so I hope he gets exactly what’s coming to him.

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TheKid: This has been gone over before I believe (but a short refresher needs to be told because of the reemergence of the sham trail).
There is SUPPOSED to be a Senior Armorer on every set (there wasn’t) Baldwin didn’t believe in that added expense. An Inexperienced Assistant Armorer was responsible for the whole shootin’ match. BIG Mistake obviously. The ‘Ammo’ supplier was separate from the Armorers supply. Not good. Too
many gaps and security mistakes.
There was also LIVE ammo on the set in the same trailer as the Blanks (all mixed up–as stated in Court documents) also, the LIVE and Blanks were ‘Left out’ on an Outside work bench (unsupervised)
There was LIVE Ammo on site because Mr. baldwin ‘Wanted to play’. It was HIS Film, His set, His Rules and he wanted to be Big Man on campus and show off . This was New Mexico (the wild west) on a period piece movie w/ Shootin’ Irons and why not have Trigger time when not filming. He loves to Play and show off.
There was Drugs (Cocaine , Pot, and Alcohol) on the set (Whoopsie!) Big No No (as you all know :crazy_face:) This was a Untypically run set by a Egotistical Moron who wore many hats because being a
Control Freak Weapons handling and Safety weren’t observed. And he didn’t like being told NO!
Baldwin also made the Armorer do other tasks and Go-fer duties. As I said he skimped. She wasn’t the sharpest knife in the drawer to begin with and she was overworked and tired (and High). Allegedly… :laughing:
The Chain of Command w/ Weapons is Multiple Assistant Armorers, The BIG Kahuna Armorer (usually the Owner of all the 'Prop guns and Live, working weapons. He was not there.
It goes from the assistants, to the Head Armorer, to the AD–Assistant director , then the director, then finally (ALL these people check the weapons), to the Property Master, the Director, then Finally the producer (the master Holds the weapons till the actor’s are ready he/she hands them to the actor (after doing another check) The Actor runs the scene and then hands the weapon(s) back to the Prop guy. And then reverses the system. At ANY time there is confusion or a Question mark the Gun(s) are taken out of service and a replacement is found and checked so no tragedy’s occur.
The SIMPLE fact is this guy Baldwin Wore (3+) hats He was the Lead Actor, The DIRECTOR and the Producer! All THREE of these positions have a role in checking the Guns! HE FAILED.
On Lone survivor and Sicario (1&2) there were ZERO AD’s (accidental Discharges) ZERO Target practice and LOT’S of RUBBER and NON-Firing Weapons.
But, There was Harry Humphrey (Navy Seal) and HIS entire Team also, Multiple Armory Trailers and Security. Just like on All the John Wicks ( I wasn’t in on those) There were Hundred’s of Rifles and Hand Guns, a Million rounds and dozens of Checks and balances.
RUST—was a Hollyweird Elites Sh** Show and Halyna died and the Assistant Director (also shot) took the (30) pieces of Silver and threw Gutierrez-Reed under the Bus. Nice people.
There are other factors leading up to the Killing but they are rumor/Gossip and I will not go there.
All I can say is because of Big Man Baldwins ego and heavy handedness he ran threw a couple of key people and (3) Security firms (One of which was an Outside New Mexico firm with a Stellar record for safety and if THEY stayed this incident might not have happened, But they called Alec on his stuff and he kicked us to the Mesa. You don’t drink on the set for ‘Authenticity’ and realism and then handle Firearms EVER. They went w/ a local company that supplied UNArmed Guars (kids) who flipped Burgers before they got hired for this position.
Everyone that is in the Check line shakes the Bullets for ‘The rattle’ (Blank round) and the color markings signifying the round is not live. You don’t point a Weapon at another person while filming and doing
Buffalo Bill style Gun tricks.
I’ve seen Mark Wahlberg and others check the Weapons (after all the other checks happened)
because they wanted to be sure they were safe. When the filming started there were a number of
Inert handguns lost in the Santa fe Mountains. Getting simulated shot and falling/Jumping off a mountain it’s bound to happen. But an Intense search was made every time and most were recovered.
Baldy was in ONE building on one small set and SH** was ‘Misplaced’ and rounds lost constantly.

It was a mess.

Lastly, I HAVE NO IDEA! Not a Lawyer, Just a Gunner.

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Ditto.

My guess is he pointed the “prop” gun in the direction of the deceased as a form of intimidation. But, what do I know? :roll_eyes:

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The way it appears, is that all three (Gutierrez, Hall, Baldwin) should be held responsible for negligence of safety, careless, reckless behavior, and endangerment resulting in death, and injury.

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This I think is the important point. He is an actor. Actors pretend to do things they usually have no idea how to do in real life. They are just doing whatever the script and director tell them to do.

Just like an untrained actor would never be allowed to fly a real plane full of real passengers while filming a movie they should never be handed a real firearm that has the ability to hold real ammunition. No one should ever count on an actor being able to tell a real gun from a fake one or real bullets from blanks.

Making movies requires having people point real looking firearms at other people and pulling the trigger. The movies would look pretty silly if the actors had to always follow the four rules of firearm safety. Which is another reason why they should never be handed a real firearm.

The crime here is that there was a fully functional firearm loaded with real ammunition allowed on the set. Then it was placed into the hands of a person who is completely unqualified to safely handle a real firearm in a scene that required pointing it in the direction of real people. As one of the producers Baldwin is responsible for ensuring a safe work environment. Instead he allowed real firearms and real ammunition on the set and allowed the hiring of an inexperienced person to supervise the use of those firearms. He also required that person to be tasked with covering other duties that didn’t allow her to focus on the task of making sure those real firearms and bullets (which should never have been allowed on set in the first place) were kept safely apart.

In addition he was on set while there were apparently several safety lapses regarding firearms right before this fatal event. He can’t claim that he didn’t know what was happening. In most workplaces those safety issues would have stopped work until the workplace was made safe again. But they just kept taking risks until someone got killed.

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If you have enough money to give to the “justice” system you can, in many cases get away with most anything.

He will walk after paying enough money…

You all know it as well as I.

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Yup!

Money TALKS and Bullshite WALKS!
New Mexico for example has A Lot of problems in the film industry
They could have been great at it. HUGE incentives and Tax breaks
Cheap plentiful Local Talent, a Hotel Industry almost gutted after Covid
It could have been great for everybody, But Film makers got greedy
and the Products went to the lowest bidders (Like NASA)
and people fled to Texas!
Now we have empty Sound stages and out of work Local electricians, Grips and actors.
People are pleading for anybody to do Commercials here! Sad.
Baldwin will walk
He may have to pony up some bucks—he already did. They day after the shoot (literally)
He bought a $750,000 Painting from a local Painting GOD and Santa Fe Pol’s went Awwwwwwwww!
What a Nice Murderer he is!
Santa fe has no shame.
Home of the $20 Fast Food Burger
$4.50 a gallon gas
and a minimum wage of $12.00 (if you have a Green Card)
He’ll walk, He already threw the Armorer under the Bus and bought the Assistant Director he winged!

What a GUY! :heart_eyes: :heart_eyes: :heart_eyes: :heart_eyes: :heart_eyes: :heart_eyes:

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or friends in high places

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It is the duty of the person in charge of the firearms, be it range officer or whatever they call it in la la land, to assure that the firearm is safe. It is also the duty of the actor using the firearm to make sure it is safe, that’s just common sense. We, who don’t live in a make believe world where you get up and walk away after being shot, know enough to follow the safety rule of handling a weapon. So both of the individuals share the blame for the accident. And that is a very good question, WHAT WAS LIVE AMMO DOING ON A MOVIE SET? In answer to the last question, some lawyer will probably get him permission to handle a gun in limited conditions , such as on a movie set or TV set.

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I disagree, there is one actor, that I am aware of, who is not only familiar with guns, but is a strong defender of gun rights and the Second Amendment. That is Tom Selleck, who is famous for putting down that expert on firearms and firearms use, Rosie O’Donnell, on national television. Not all actors are ignorant, but there are a great many actors and show business people don’t know what they are talking about when it comes to firearms. Also, a lot of studios and actors are two faced when it come to the right to bear arms.

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When live firearms are involved, it’s EVERYONES RESPONSIBILITY.
When I take my family and friends to the range, I’m responsible for everything and everyone, my kids, grandkids, everyone who accompanies me is responsible for everything around me. Including policing up spent brass, putting up targets, even though we’ve all trained for the past 20 years, there’s always a safety briefing prior to handling ! That’s so the newest and younger ones learn! No matter how phuckin dumbed down they want to make this world, I will NEVER EVER stop teaching the correct use of firearms!
Alec Baldwin is the reason for gun control!

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I disagree, there is one actor, that I am aware of, who is not only familiar with guns, but is a strong defender of gun rights and the Second Amendment. That is Tom Selleck, who is famous for putting down that expert on firearms and firearms use, Rosie O’Donnell, on national television. Not all actors are ignorant,

Brother Keith, There are A LOT of Great Actor’s who know their stuff about Guns, Love Guns, Own 'em
'choot 'em.
Alec is an Anomaly because he is and Considers himself an ELITE! He is a baldwin after all (I have no love for any of them) Arrogant, Ego driven and and Azzhat!
Kevin Costner used to shoot off his back porch in Montana (and he retrieved his own Brass! (He didn’t make a lackey like me pick them up—He didn’t surround himself w/ lackey’s anyway)
Mr. Duvall, Obviously Mr. Heston , and on and on. And they didn’t treat their security teams like dirt.
Class Acts.

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So are you saying that because there are some actors with firearm experience we should trust all actors to handle real firearms safely on a set where they will almost certainly be required to break some of the four safety rules from time to time?

Some actors have pilots licenses. Should we trust all actors to land a real plane full of passengers because some of them have shown they can?

I think it is reckless and incredibly dangerous to count on the vast majority of actors to handle a real firearm safely unless they are under the direct supervision of a qualified and diligent firearms expert. Since many of them are completely unqualified to handle a firearm safely even under controlled range conditions and a lot of them have no interest in becoming competent with real firearms, the reasonable solution is to never hand them a real firearm capable of firing live rounds on a movie set or anywhere else for that matter. Unless they truly want to learn how to do the real thing in a controlled and safe environment in a location far away from where the filming is being done.

But even if all the actors are firearm experts it is still not a very good idea to have real firearms on set since in order to make the films as real as possible they will have to be pointed at people and triggers will need to be pulled. There is absolutely no excuse for having live ammo anywhere near where the production is being filmed. Shooting live rounds for fun between scenes with the firearms being used in the film (which appears to be the case here) was a monumental safety fail.

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Did I say that? My statement was that there is one actor, that I was aware of, who supported gun rights 100%. The writer I was responding to made a broad statement about actors and their stand toward guns. He was partially wrong. There are probably more actors who stand with Seleck regarding guns, but I do not have that information. I do believe that Hollywood and some of it’s members are hypocritical regarding their anti gun attitudes.

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I wasn’t aware that Costner was a brother in arms. Makes me enjoy his films all the more. I didn’t know about Duvall either, but I was well aware of Heston. I can’t tell you how many times I hear someone make an off the wall statement about guns. The ignorance and prejudice regarding firearms is amazing. I correct anyone who makes an incorrect statement. I do it politely and with tact, but sometimes I’d like to grab the idiot and shaken some sense into him. I have family in show business and, sad to say, they have the same anti gun attitude.The best we can do is to keep spreading the word and hope it doesn’t fall on deaf ears, God bless and be well.

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I believe you did:

To my mind that is not all that different than handing the keys to the car to someone who has lived their entire lives on a tiny pacific island with no cars or roads and telling them it is their responsibility to safely get all the passenger through LA rush hour traffic.

While there are some actors who seem to be proponents of the 2A and have some level of experience with firearms, the majority of the actors I have seen voice their opinions on the topic are actively lobbying against 2A rights. These are the same actors that have no problem hypocritically playing with firearms on the screen. Based on how most of them are handling the firearms on screen it seems clear to me that most of them have very little to no experience handling real firearms.

When my son was very young I taught him how to be safe around firearms. Now that he is getting a little older I am starting to teach him how to safely handle a firearm. I am sure he has more knowledge and ability than many of these actors but when he handles anything more than a nerf gun it is still 100% my responsibility to make sure he is safe and will remain that way until he has repeatedly and consistently demonstrated that he has the ability to safely do it on his own.

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You are right . I have seen actors sweeping the entire cast as well as the directors and cameramen while on the screen. mI’m not trying to make excuses for the actors, I’m just saying there are some out there that are on our side. That is one of the the problems with our society. We lack responsibility. A parent knows that a son or daughter have a problem; mental, emotional, anger, disrespect, disruptive or criminal actions; and instead of dealing with it and getting help they ignore it until it is too late. A mother just got convicted for buying a weapon for her son who used it in a shooting. What are they thinking of. It sounds like you are taking the right path with your son and bringing him up as you should. Keep the good work.

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