Grandfather of Oklahoma teen killed by homeowner in burglary says AR-15 made


I’ve read this before, and to be honest, I feel sorry for the man but not for the reason most would think. I feel sorry for him because the media is using his grief, to generate some outrage.


“Brass knuckles against an AR-15? C’mon. Who was afraid for their life?” Schumacher said.

I recall that the rifle was used by the homeowner’s son, who was not expected to be there. Original plan was 3 young thugs with brass knuckles and knives vs. 60-year old man. How fair is that?

I can guess that the kid was growing in the environment where personal responsibility and respect were nothing, and other people were looked at as targets of opportunity, not necessarily of criminal type, but for gain, for bullying, etc. I guess that from the grandfather’s attitude.


Don’t forget the knife as well. Or the 4th accomplice waiting outside. Or the Tueller standard. That’s why I can understand his grief, but have no sympathy for the outrage the media is trying to whip up for this supposedly " unfair" fight.

Brass knuckles will absolutely crush someone’s skull if they are hit with suffcient force, there is a reason brass knuckles are illegal in a large number of jurisdictions. Knives have and always will continue to be considered to be lethal weapons.

Law enforcement is apportioning the blame where it appropriately belongs, the surviving accomplice.


I feel bad for the grandfather’s loss. But, those 3 boys walked in planning on hurting or killing the homeowner. They bear responsibility, not the homeowner. The one thing they reported that rings true and hopefully will be remembered,

You can’t change history, but you can damn sure learn from it, and maybe some kids will learn from this.


I stopped feeling emotions about media spin. Let’s just say, they meet my expectations. Sometimes public comments under the news articles make a lot more sense than the articles themselves.

There is no way to tell how much the grandfather was present in this kid’s life (same goes for the parents!), but this was not a random prank, you have to graduate to armed home invasion (kids armed themselves, they anticipated resistance). I don’t buy that the parents didn’t see where the kid’s life was going prior to that. They just didn’t care.


Exactly. ^^^


I don’t understand. In these situations, Should all parties inventory and compare before anything starts?


Some would say yes, and also adjust for economic unfairness and climate change.


I hate it for the grandfather, but the teen along with two friends was going into someone else’s home with the intent of robbing and inflicting harm on a human being. The homeowner did what he had to do to protect himself and his home. The fact that he used an AR-15 irrelevant. The same could be said if he used a .45 or another caliber. When someone choses to go into someone’s home or choses to try to cause harm to another human-they should know one of the consequences could ultimately be death.


Why do people in various communities make such an issue of a thugs death? Particularly in the Black community since Black on Black crime is such a problem. If they run up against an armed person of any other ethnicity, it is just an off day or change of diet for a day for a Black Thug.
If a thug that happens to be Black, a Teen, or some other identified sympathy group chose to become a thug threatening peoples lives, did that thug not choose to put themselves at risk of meeting an armed homeowner, or person with a CCH?
It does not matter what the weapon. If he had used a 10 ounce ball peen hammer and crushed their skulls, they would be just as dead? Any kind of firearms handgun or long gun would have yielded the same result. A result that I agree with.


There is NO such thing as an unfair fight when anyone and everyone that breaks into your home or forces their way in is standing in your house with weapons or without weapons.


This grandfather was obviously not involved with raising or influencing the teens life or they wouldn’t be robbing/killing anyone. If they were to grow up, they would be more devastating thugs. Thank GOD that the homeowner was armed to defend themselves against these thugs.


Brass knuckles are “Banned” (in most places), just shows that “Bans” do not work. They never have. Until the punishment stems the tide of crime, it will continue.


3 of them broke into the house and they were all armed, did they expect the stuff they were going to steal to fight back? No, so then why were they armed? If 3 armed men break into your house, are you going to say, oh, you all have knifes and I have a gun, let me get a knife and make this a fair fight, no you are going to protect yourself and your family, enough said.


I’m not sure, but I think it was Colonel Jeff Cooper who said “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your strategy sucks.”


Does anyone care about fair? I learned at a very young age that things aren’t fair. I didn’t stick up for my kids when they’re doing some stupid crap, hopefully they live & learn. Hang around bad folks & bad things happen. It’s always sad.

1 Like

These boys’ families are going to suffer with this the rest of their lives, we have to live with this the rest of our lives," he said. "You can’t change history, but you can damn sure learn from it,



This is hard to say.

The criminals are not the victims here, The victim is. The criminals did not suffer from unfairness of circumstance or actions, rather, they were deliberately trying to create that situation for someone else, to facilitate their invasion of private property for personal gain.

It is difficult to imagine that this need be said at all. But I fear it must :

Consider. - What if this unfairness statement had been made by anyone other than a relative who just suffered a grievous loss?

If reports I have seen are accurate:
It was a home invasion. The invaders were armed. They had an outside lookout and accomplice. They had the powerful advantages of numbers, foreknowledge, their own preparations, and surprise at their disposal.

It absolutely WAS an unfair fight, but the outnumbered and ambushed victim of this unfairness was prepared and managed to prevail, which was certainly not a given. He was, in fact, fortunate to get enough warning to utilize having been prepared and, therefore have a chance.

It is tragic that these young men chose to try and overwhelm and victimize someone who was at peace in their own home . The victim of this crime will have to live with it for the rest of his life.

There are those who would have it be that no criminal is opposed, no criminal activity fought off, because the criminal might have a good excuse, or get hurt more than they think is fair. There are those in this country, now, who push for that very thing. And they do it this very way. By the exploitation of someone’s time of grief and pain to lend the credibility of loss, and thereby, have the view put forth in a way unopposable, for the sake of sympathy and kindness, But it is to promote defenselessness for the innocent to do so.

It is a tragic loss of life, and heart breaking for so many. But we simply must not allow one tragic thing to be used to cause another.

Writing this is heart wrenching for me. But this kind of narrative, with criminal as victim in this way, must be opposed. The consequences of not doing so are to bring about tragedy upon tragedy innumerable, upon not criminals, but the innocent.

All three were shot, and died. Was that necessary or understandable? We do not fully know.

But unfair advantage?

Most assuredly not! - How could you possibly have an unfair advantage to self defense in your own home? You can not.


[quote]“Brass knuckles against an AR-15? C’mon. Who was afraid for their life?” Schumacher said.
I’m too old to take a beating and too young to die.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.