When holstering your handgun do you look/glance at the holster?

After an altercation and your body is full of adrenaline i will say unequivocally i will look my firearm into the holster. I look EVERY TIME i reholster, i carry appendix and you never know what or how something can get in the way.

Final answer , yes every time

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I was taught, and continue to instruct, that you should look your handgun into the holster.

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I wasnā€™t exactly trying to make an analogy. I was trying to throw out a familiar false equivalency which I thought most of us would recognize. I thought that might make it easier to recognize

ā€œholstering blind is unsafe because NDs happen when holsteringā€

is a very similar false equivalency.

Handling guns unsafely causes unintended discharge. Holstering is a common manipulation which seems to be done unsafely with some frequency. So?
ā€¢ Donā€™t holster your gun is one solution.
ā€¢ Learn to holster safely is another solution.

Look at what youā€™re doing is kind of a lazy middle ground IMHO ā€” it really wonā€™t prevent unsafe acts, but it does provide the sloppy holsterer a chance to catch their error before it hatches.

You plan to never need to holster a gun with compromised vision? Ok, fine. Look it in. Do whatever you have been practicing to do when your vision is limited by blowing dust, leaking blood, bulky clothes, darkness, lost glasses, whatever.

But if you can imagine needing to holster blind one day, then I recommend learning and practicing. A lot. Under controlled and increasingly challenging conditions. Not until you get it right, but until you canā€™t get it wrong ā€” same as all the rest of our skills.

I know Iā€™m pushing against dogma thatā€™s not going to shift because I say so. But nothing changes if nobody says so. :wink:

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I agree.

And IMO and IME, looking with your eyes is part of learning to safely holster.

Thatā€™s the core of the discussion.

I plan to always use my vision if it is available.

I do not plan to holster a loaded gun without looking, for practice, in case I have to. Same as I do not plan to shoot a person, for practice, in case I have to.

If one wanted to dedicate training time to holstering without normal vision, just in case, one could (and IMO, should) do that when doing dry fire draws and drills with an unloaded gun or SIRT or blue gun.

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And I agree whole-heartedly with that.
Part. Of learning.

It is definitely day one of holster operation. Probably a good part of year one, depending upon how intense a training and practice regimen one commits to. And definitely starting with an inert weapon until that manipulation is ā€œimpossibleā€ to do wrong. No argument that visual is a safer way to start. Itā€™s also necessary to have that to fall back on when your other senses detect trouble, or are compromised.

Ok. Good luck. I plan to never attempt something hazardous under stress which I have not become proficient with ahead of time. Some things one canā€™t anticipate; compromised vision, I easily can.

I might also point out that 100% of negligent discharges are associated with the use of live ammunition. It is much, much safer to only practice defensive shooting skills with dry fire and inert guns. But who would?

Use of firearms cannot be learned without some risk. Everyone must choose what risk has what value. Dogma? Doctrine? Risk analysis? There are lots of paths.

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Would it really though?

Are you just completely discounting the potential for actual self defense use as part of what is safer?

You can train to holster using an inert gun and it is 100% as effective as training to holster using a life gun. You cannot train for shooting proficiency with an inert gun and have 100% as effective a result as training for shooting proficiency with a live gun.

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First, if the situation isnā€™t safe enough for you to take a few seconds to look at your holster then you probably should be re-holstering.

Second if there were shots exchanged you donā€™t know if your holster got hit or not and may be damaged. Trying to slide your firearm back in to a damaged holster might damage it or cause a discharge.

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Yes the subject did get off track, but the important thing is to remind our selfs the importance of safely holstering our handguns.
( Good catch John )
PS: donā€™t Believe what you hear and, only half of what you see but, you can believe what you feel.

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Always!! Remember the police officer that shot himself in the thigh when his shirt got caught in the trigger housing while putting his gun in the holster. Always look at what your doing especially when going in the holster. Coming out is not as bad as the pressure on the trigger would be forward.

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In the context of matching the logic of your argument, yes, I suppose I am.

In the context of reality, I have not really examined the question. I know that there are many successful defenses with firearms by people with next to no competence or training, and most of those events probably occur without unintended shots or injuries. So it is plausible that training with dry fire only could be reasonably effective without the hazards of training with live ammunition. :crazy_face: But who would?

My actual argument is that the preceding statement is not true. One hundred percent effective is training as nearly as practical under the conditions you expect you might face. It would be safer to practice loading and unloading only with inert guns ā€” I donā€™t. It would be safer to practice draw and reholster only with inert guns ā€” I donā€™t. It would be safer to practice draw and reholster only with uncovered OWB holsters ā€” I donā€™t. It would be safer to practice malfunctions only with inert guns ā€” I donā€™t. It would be safer to never move or turn while practicing with live ammunition ā€” I donā€™t. It would be safer to remove your holster and hold it out in front of you for reholstering ā€” I donā€™t.

I did learn and diligently practice all those manipulations with inert tools before incorporating them into my live fire practice ā€” and would advise anyone to do the same. I understand that ā€” if I have a negligent mishap during any of those activities ā€” it is my failure as the firearm operator which is responsible for any harm. Not the gun. Not the manipulation. Learning to safely reholster using audible and tactile and proprioceptive cues instead of being reliant upon visual confirmation is just the same. So is learning when and how to incorporate alternate paths when those non-visual cues are ambiguous (tactile inspection, retreat and start again, visual inspection, remove holster for insertion, clear gun, etc).

Some people want to practice platoon assault tactics or stacked room entry. I want to practice for what I expect I might face. I donā€™t expect (nor intend) to overturn introductory safe-practice doctrines for instructors or students. But I do consider non-visual reholstering to be a solid, journey-level, practical, defensive skill ā€” not a cardinal sin or some exotic ā€œoperatorā€ mystique thing. YMMV.

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We will have to agree to disagree, you seem caught up on ā€œit would be saferā€ while ignoring how effective it is at achieving the training goal.

If you believe the only way to be capable of blind reholstering a gun is to practice blind reholstering with the gun loaded, you get to make that choice for yourself.

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Not really my theme. My theme is automaticity ā€” trying to make the most important, most challenging, most frequent, and most hazardous tasks familiar enough to be accomplished correctly with the least chance of distraction, error, or analysis. Itā€™s not that I think practicing non-visual holster manipulation is somehow ā€œbetterā€ with a loaded gun; itā€™s that all holster manipulation will be better if it can be practiced and performed the same regardless of ammunition status. I try do dry fire the same as live fire the same as I expect to perform in defensive use ā€” and I want my defensive practice to account for worst case, not the best or most common case.

I agree that we have each had our say, and will probably not be agreeing on this point at this time.
But debate is really about what the audience gets out of it, more than the participants, eh? :wink:

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No I donā€™t.

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Yes. If a possible threat still exists, youā€™ll want to keep your handgun at either low-ready or high-ready. When you feel that everything is safe, you can then look your handgun back into its holster.

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Thanks, I agree.

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Yes, Mike. We donā€™t need to worry about speed on re-holstering. We need to be thinking of safety first; our personal safety from the serious threat that was presented, and not blowing a hole in our leg when we re-holster our handgun.

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This no-look holstering is fine to look cool on the range or giving a demo when your shirt is tucked in, or your cover garment is hanging perfectly. Isnā€™t that what itā€™s all about to look cool for the camera? When you are actively engaged, clothing can move, the holster can change position, the holster may have been damaged. Too many what-ifs to be looking cool and getting a negligent discharge. Donā€™t holster until the scene is safe. There is no winner to speed holstering. Take a breath, tactical reload, find your holster, and slowly, carefully put it in a safe position. If you feel resistance, start over. You made it this far. Donā€™t blow it by shooting yourself because you were too cool for school to look that firearm back into the holster.

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The best part about trying to look cool with the fast blind holster move is the negligent discharge. Then its really hard to look cool with a big wet spot on your pants and your toe about 2 feet in front of you looking bad! :joy::joy::joy:

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May not be the best analogy. When you go number 2 in any bathroom do you look at the bowel and seat 1st then sit down? Especially in public restrooms. I want to make sure seat and bowel are clear before :seat:. just like when i holster is everything clear?

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Even moreā€¦ Iā€™m looking at the bowl in my house as well. :wink:

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