I realize that this may be a touchy subject, and that there may actually be LEOs in here, but it’s something that has been bothering me lately that I want to get others opinions on.
From my observations, gun owners have generally “backed the blue” and been very supportive of law enforcement. I used to work closely with LE and had many cops that were friends. Here’s the but - again from my observations - police don’t really support gun rights. An example is in the aftermath of the Oxford school shootings, bills are being introduced at both the state and federal levels requiring the secure storage of firearms (U.S. Rep. Elissa Slotkin is introducing it at the federal level). We all know that if your weapon is locked up in a safe, it’s not doing you much good if someone kicks down your door in the middle of the night. None-the-less, Slotkin has the backing of law enforcement on this.
I can think back over the years - and to the police officers that I called friends - to many instances where they were in favor of gun laws. As far as they’re concerned, they don’t want anyone but law enforcement having guns (naturally, I am speaking in general terms). So, is our support of LE misguided, as they don’t support us?
I think this is a good thing for us all to have a conversation about, and I do understand where you are coming from.
Where I would disagree is where you say “police don’t really support gun rights”. I think that is a bit of a generalization. While there are probably a fair amount that does, I have only had interactions with Police officers that fully support gun ownership and fewer restrictions. I think this will depend on the location and the individual Police officers. It’s also important to remember that the “support” for more gun laws from departments may not mean ALL the officers in that department support it, it may just be the stance of the local Police union or the heads of the office. I don’t think it would be fair to accuse all who work for that department or under that union of not supporting gun rights.
In regards to legislation for these issues, I am torn, because I always get concerned whenever politicians are pushing for more legislation. Once it starts, it sometimes never ends. However, securing firearms I feel has been one of the areas the 2A community can be better at supporting. In a lot of these cases where kids are hurt by a firearm, it was because the firearm wasn’t properly secured.
I do disagree that a firearm being locked in a safe will do you no good. All of my firearms are locked in a safe when they aren’t on my person. Most of them are in a larger safe in the basement for long-term storage, but my carry gun and home defense guns are in quick access GunVault’s. They keep the firearm secure, but I can access them within 2 seconds if the need were to arise.
Almost all LE I have ever been in contact with have been very very supportive of civi’s possessing firearms.
Every friend I have had that has been LE, (more than 75 less than 100) support 2A, Constitutional Carry, License to Carry, etc.
Every time (not to often) I or the wife has been pulled over for a traffic violation we present our LTC license and LE asks if we are carrying now, we answer yes and they have always said “good”.
This is not to say you won’t have your occasional LEO who would like nothing better than to rule over the sheep, but we can’t generalize without the numbers.
There was a COP in Austin, Art Ausavado (sp) who HATED the sheep with firearms and said if he could he’d gather them all up. He left Austin shortly after this comment to be the COP in Houston. I think he isn’t even over there anymore. But that was Austin, second only to SFO.
I support LE, we give huge discounts to them (as well as Mil, Vets, Fire, LTC holders) at work. Whenever I have the pleasure to be in a restaurant dining when they are there, I buy their meal(s).
The COP I’m pretty sure is appointed by a City Council or the Mayor, so they are very Political. County Sheriffs are VOTED in by the people, I think this can make a difference.
@JCP…I think you hit the nail on the head… the big 3 cities in my state have reputations for abusing CCWers. I think arrogance and ignorance rule their anti-CCW stand. They will tell you they can’t be everywhere at once and then deny you the right to defend yourself. HAVING said that… i live in one of those anti-CCW cities. I have been stopped twice in 3 years and informed the officers that I have a firearm (never a “gun”) and a permit… neither asked me for my permit… they just asked me to keep my hands on the steering wheel. Neither asked anything of my wife who is also a CCW. The PIO and IA capt is also a friend. He claims that the official stand of the dept is pro CCW and pro-2A. Small communities probably better than large.
Art Aceveda has left corruption in his wake. He left Houston for Miami where he was fired for controversial comments about a certain group of citizens and crime. He left Austin because he was going to be fired for ordering 600 rape kits to be destroyed (his way of reducing crime). In Houston he defended 10 cops who murdered a 60 yo couple with a no-knock warrant they got using lies… he let the top two sgts to retire instead of firing them. The man is an animal and needs to go back to Cuba where is dad is a cop.
I agree with this completely. I was in the Marine Corps, and I am completely discouraged with the direction the Marine Corps - and the military in general - are going. I do not, however, have anything against the individual soldier/sailor/marine. I support them with great enthusiasm. So to translate that here, I may be discouraged with the anti-gun stance at the department level, I still support the individual officer/deputy/trooper.
That is a great question. The state where I reside, Virginia, I have plenty of friends in law enforcement and they support the 2A and are happy that honest law abiding citizens have concealed carry permits. All law enforcement jurisdictions are different and may have different opinions. I continue to support LEOs because I have walked in there shoes. Been there done that. Some LEOs may not want honest law abiding citizens to carry for what ever reasons they have. I for one will continue to support them. I am a active member of my local FOP lodge. We need the police and they should be appreciated for what they do. Sure there are some corrupt, bad apples out there but your talking about a hand full out of millions. Don’t be hard on them because they have a job to do.
I know, around here, we live in the Liberal Bastion of Utah, there’s always a lot of talk by the Chief about “something needs to be done about gun violence” and “our legislature needs to act” but when you talk to the SLCPD on the streets, they seem to support 2A.
OK, Johnny, First… between 800,000 and a million, not millions. And that handful is 1.000s if not 10s of 1000s. Lets take 10% bad… that’s up to 100,000, and then lets talk about poorly trained and inept, say another 10%,… that’s another 100,000. SO, how do you know the ones you can trust? One thing I will tell you, every cop on every dept knows who the bad and inept cops are and they do nothing. MY OPINION ONLY-- police unions need to either be outlawed or deal with compensation issues only, and qualified immunity must end. Officers should get their own liability insurance for misconduct instead of taxpayers paying the bill. The market place will weed out bad cops.
Let’s remember to keep the conversation related to the original post regarding law enforcement supporting guns laws and the legislation regarding gun safe storage policies.
The law enforcement in my area, are Pro-2A for the most part. In fact, the current county sheriff penned a letter refusing to enforce unconstitutional laws. The man running for Sheriff as his replacement(retiring) also encourages every legal person to own, and carry firearms. Lots of the LEO in my area either teach, or help teach concealed carry classes also.
This is awesome! I know of a few departments that allow instructors to use a classroom at the police department for teaching courses, but I haven’t heard of many departments teaching these courses.
The best range in town here is owned and operated by current and former LEOs and various special forces. They are expanding to 16 cities as we speak. They, like the USCCA, are top notch with their training. But unfortunately, they are still the minority in the region. Training is SO much better than anti-gun laws.
I recall at one time, one ranking member of our local PD worked part time at a LGS on his days off. But, I live in a 2A-friendly part of socialist California.
It’s the retired ones. One is a retired ISP Master Sargent, who got his barbers license. He opens a Barber Shop/Gun Range/ Training facility. Yes, I get my hair cut there. He also is good to the 4H shooting sports. My rifle team gets to use the range, for only 25 dollars for as many practices as I can fit in for the year.
I reside in Illinois and so far every LEO I met or worked with was fully supporting owning the firearms and carrying them by private citizens.
I would be able to understand the LEO’s antipathy → in their eyes they lost advantage on controlling bad situations not having better tools than others. Right now simple quarrel can end up with shooting.
Does it change my support for them? Not at all. If I play fair they play fair too.
Perhaps my thoughts were somehow targeted, because my firearm journey started from LE environment. Sheriff’s Department Deputies run CCW classes, then taught me proper holstering, defensive procedures and tactics. After almost 2 years of conversations I got my opinions and was able to understand more than I was thinking before.
The only way to fairly judge somebody is to get a knowledge from both fighting sides.
So yes, I’m still supporting LE, because I know they support me (at least at this moment).
Regarding easy access to firearm at home. We still cannot blame the firearm or storage for it. All these actions / accidents when kids got access to the firearm were produced by weak knowledge and thinking. So instead of limiting access to firearms, people should be educated how to proceed with firearms, parents should talk with kids, kids should be smart enough.
I don’t think that’s an accurate generalization. It definitely does not match my personal experience, but my experience has not be in or near large metro areas — so a different generalization might be apt there.
I have found first-time and familiar contacts with LEO on the street from PD, SO, SP, and federal agencies to be nearly universal in individual 2A and CC recognition and support. Sometimes just incidental remarks, sometimes when knowing I am armed during contact, pretty much always boils down to some version of “glad to hear it”. Maybe that is honest expression, maybe it is tactful good manners — I understand it is not a universal thing experienced everywhere by everyone. I also probably fit their profile of “not a threat” — the same officers might interact differently with different people in different circumstances. But I would certainly not paint individual officers generally as “not supporting gun rights”.
Where I do see 2A opposition from “law enforcement” is from politically oriented command staff and aspirants — appointed, elected, or promoting. Also from 501(c)(4) and 501(c)(5) organizations, which might go any direction their directors choose regardless of actual member values. I don’t know how to fix that, but I don’t see that as “law enforcement opposition” — it’s just political opposition on a police letterhead.
If I worry about Constitutional support from street level cops, it would be more about their ability and inclination to work within the constraints of 1A, 4A, 5A, 12A, & 14A.
I, personally, believe that Law Enforcement is a shitty job. So I support them as much as I can. Every holiday we make dinner for them. I live in a smallish town.
With that said our statewide pro 2A group has had every good pro 2A bill strangled by the sheriff’s association.
