Do not play LEO being armed citizen

This is the unfortunate example of wrong understanding of right to carry the firearm by private citizen.

The story:

The explanation:

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Communication failure.

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What a CPL/CWL is NOT. It is NOT a badge. It’s a license to carry something (firearm) concealed.

There is no “communication failure” in this scenario. This is someone who died because he didn’t receive the proper training or, he failed to heed that training, or he refused to read, know and follow his State laws regarding the use of force or all of the aforementioned.

This started out as a “property crime”. And as we teach in our USCCA courses, “If it isn’t worth dying for, it isn’t worth killing for”.

This tragedy was totally unavoidable.

Stay safe.

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And if you have one of those stupid CCW badges, throw it far, far away in the lake. :roll_eyes:

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Property crime with no imminent threat to anyone does not warrant the use your EDC.

If you want to be a Good Samaritan, maybe call 911 and keep them updated on the shoplifter’s location, while following at a safe distance.

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Something I said before bears repeating.

My CCL instructor made it clear, the CCL did not come with a badge or a cape!

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That is horrible!

From the video, it’s not certain if he is a good guy or not.

By him not responding to police commands has him leaning more towards the bad guy.

But let’s suppose he is a good guy trying to do a “good” thing… Well, he ended up doing a bad thing with the right mindset. Sometimes, we as humans make awful decisions and this one costs his life.

God rest his soul.

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Mine did too!

That’s why even basic or intermediate classes are so important. This should be common sense not to think a permit gives you legal authority however some people just need to hear basic law.

For example, how fast would you go if there was no speed limit? Probably at a dangerous speed but letting an individual see the "speed limit’ and they will slow down. With this basics in law comes will to be cautious and understand more law.

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Many states allow citizen arrests. Do any allow displaying a firearm to stop a suspect from fleeing?

Even if they did it seems like a stupid idea that is likely to cause more harm than good. The only reason I could see for attempting to hold someone at gun point is if you just witnessed them kill or seriously harm someone or attempt to do so and feared they were an imminent threat to yourself or others. Even then you are taking a big risk.

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WHAT ABOUT A FALSE CITIZEN’S ARREST?

A law enforcement officer has a lot more leeway when conducting an arrest than a private citizen does. If a police officer arrests someone they mistakenly but reasonably believed to have committed a crime, then they aren’t likely to be prosecuted for it.

However, private citizens who make arrests under the same circumstances can be held liable for things such as false imprisonment, which is most closely associated to kidnapping charges.

Herein lies the issue with a citizen’s arrest and why you don’t see it done that often: Performing a citizen’s arrest can open up the citizen to criminal and civil liability as well, especially if force is used to apprehend a suspect.

For example, if a citizen attempts to arrest someone and uses deadly force, then they not only open themselves up to manslaughter or murder charges criminally, they also open themselves up to civil actions such as wrongful death from the family of the person they killed.

However, if they can prove in court that they had probable cause to believe that the person they attempted to arrest committed a crime, they cannot be held liable for damages in Illinois.

No badge & no cape!!

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If it’s just shoplifting and you want to take action just follow the individuals and call 911 with their location. This was a tragedy and could have been prevented with the proper training. I would go as far as saying even if it had been an armed robbery with the use of a firearm you can be a good witness without using deadly force. ie: call 911, get a good description, get a getaway cars plate number. This man lost his life to protect someone else’s property, it’s ashamed.

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I think it was addressed in another thread but. While exercising the right to carry we broaden our responsibilities. Knowing the limit of responsibilities is part and parcel. Sometime

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I hear what you’re saying, @Johnnyq60, but I might be hesitant following people who have just committed a crime. Who knows what they’re carrying in their vehicle, or what they’re willing to do?

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I can respect that decision brother @Alces_Americanus :+1::+1:

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Be careful making any kind of citizens arrest you might find yourself in trouble.

Louisiana has a criminal law making unlawful detention of a person without proper legal authority a crime.

“RS 14:46 - False imprisonment”

Check your state laws you might find a similar law.

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It will hit a rifle you may have lost😀

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The stupid is strong in the link… As stated above, property theft. Not even your own property theft!

And you pull a gun!? As most of you stated, if you want to help, be a good witness, call 911, get pictures if you want, plate numbers…

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When I applied and decided to carry a weapon, the intent was not to be a crime fighter. It was strictly to protect MY life and that of my family.
Someone stealing cheap Chinese goods from a store obviously needs it more than me and absolutely no reason for me as a civilian to draw down on. Losing my life over a lowlife is not an option!
Even if the thug stole thousands in cash, it wasn’t my cash and never presented a deadly threat in my direction.

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Having one of those STUPID CCW badges is BIG time STUPID.

Whatever your mindset is, you are NOT law enforcement and thinking that it could be a positive thing to ever have one in your possession is way out in left field. If an LEO ever sees it you will probably not be treated as a responsible law abiding armed American. You have a much better chance of it getting you in trouble, not getting you out of trouble.

I am retired now, however in my past and in conversations with many other LEO’s most responsible armed law abiding Americans got treated well. Most end up with warnings if they are stopped.

Decent people get stopped not even knowing they did anything wrong (Tag light out, etc…). Some people make mistakes (roll stop signs etc…). Some people do stupid things (Speed, run red lights etc…). Some people do real bad things (DUI).

Regardless, I can tell you a FACT. If one of those CCW Badges get observed, many LEO’s, not all, will do everything in their power to Jack Pot You (write you as many citations {tickets}) as possible), or go out of their way to arrest you for anything they can (if they cant arrest you for impersonating an officer), when there is the slightest flash of a badge and it is not a government issued badge (LEO, FD, EMS, etc…).

The sad thing is most people in possession of these CCW badges don’t think they are doing anything wrong. In some cases they are sold by CCW instructors to make an extra buck. If you got one of these from a CCW instructor you probably need another class. In many instances rookie and senior officers let their guard down when they see a badge, When or if they find out it was not government issued they feel humiliated and they retaliate by not issuing a warning.

I could go on and on about these CCW badges. The moral of the story is, if you have one, throw it out and you will have a better relationship with law enforcement if you ever get stopped or have a contact with one!

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