Do not play LEO being armed citizen

Amen! IMO you hit the nail on the head. I can’t see where they have any positive value.

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Wait… I thought you guys were being metaphorical. You mean people actually wear such things???

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Ummmm. Yup. :grimacing:

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There are some idiots that put them on their belts knowing most people can’t read the fine print while they are wearing the badge that way. Some even partially secret the badge by facing the badge towards themselves between their belts and pants, as some off duty LEO’s do if it does not need to be displayed.
AND THEN ------- There are the ones that put them in a badge wallet with the protective leather inner flap that covers the badge and keeps the badge from damaging the plastic ID cover that the Police ID (or their permit and their Drivers License) stays behind. When they get pulled over the only thing the LEO sees is the tiny shiny portion of what is clearly a badge that shows from behind the leather flap. THEN they make it worse!!! When the LEO inquires where do you work? The idiot just says I would rather not say and I do not need my work (or if they are REALLY STUPID “my department or agency”) to know I got pulled over. Some rookies and even senior LEO’s do not want to push it and don’t demand to see the badge and just issue a warning, thinking that they might have stopped someone important. Most patrol level LEO’s wear a Silver colored badge and can be intimidated by the CCW badge being Gold in color HOWEVER properly trained and experienced LEO’s will at this point (seeing the portion of what is clearly a badge being partially displayed), DEMAND to see the partially displayed badge since it has now become part of the investigation during the stop/contact. This is also frequent in non mandatory disclosure states, where the CCW holder does not need to disclose that they are a permit holder and they are armed. Like I previously stated possession of these can never come to anything good.

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Indeed. Yikes.

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These same idiots are allowed to VOTE!

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I wore a LEO uniform for over 30 years and of course carried a badge when off duty. And even we were taught to observe and report whenever possible when we observe a crime and to not intervene short of a life in danger while we were off duty. Reason being of course is that off duty means we look like every other Tom, Dick and Harry out there. I teach safety/security at our church and a neighboring church head of security came to visit one day while we were discussing firearm issues within a church. When I discussed how to respond in the event of a church shooting involving a member of the security team and when LE arrives this guy said he never ever thought about this. He asked if I would come talk with his group and I said I would and this was a year ago. This guy was a local who apparently volunteered to run this group and had no real training. But now that I am retired I qualify yearly at the PD to stay qualified under LEOSA and to this day I hear in every pre shooting briefing to remember that we are no longer sworn and to remember that if we act to protect someone using our firearm we need to remember our training when on duty LE arrives. I am willing to discuss firearms and firearm safety with anyone but some I talk to out here just scare the hell out of with how little they know or how much they think they know.

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When I retired, I stopped using my ID to carry under LEOSA and went straight to carrying under a State permit. Like everyone else had to, I took the required training, filled out the paperwork, paid my fees and waited my turn to get my permit.

Why anyone would want to be a Police Officer, real or pretend these days in this acrid political environment is beyond me. Be a good witness, stay out of jail and go home safe to your loved ones.

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Yes, know y our state’s laws before you act.

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Frank73,

Just curious why you gave up the LEOSA card? The state permit is obviously still a good thing but was it due to getting to a range to qualify for the LEOSA card? I’m fortunate that my former agency still allows retirees to come in and qualify once a year for the new card. But the says of coming in to just practice are over as they have just become way too busy.

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The State that I live in enjoys enough reciprocity with States that I travel through. The rest of the States, I have no desire to ever visit. Plus, it felt like I was still carrying a badge.

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Understood.

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from what I understand about the subject, if you do not know 100% of what is happening, be a good citizen and call 911. If you want to play cop, go to the academy and become one. If you play cop, you may defend (shoot) the wrong guy.

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As a member here I scan through the comments a lot just to get an idea of what people are thinking and where the world is headed. I live in an area that has a very large Police presents Fed, State, and local LEO are always here training at Quantico. I do not understand peoples logic. I would be hard pressed to draw down and fire on someone unless I myself or my family member was in immediate life threating danger. Unfortunately That would also include me not defending a civilian if needed. I would render aid if necessary, but that is as far as it would go. I feel like I would be risking my life for no reason with all the plane clothes LE in the area, it would be easy for a mistake to be made in todays climate and the wrong person would be put down. The grave yards around the country are filled with people with good intentions that were mistaken for bad people. I see what is going on in todays world, and I am saddened to see how everyday people are responding to our police forces. It is unfortunate and heart breaking. We see body cam footage from police coming to the aid of someone that called for help. And somehow all of the good that is done is turned into a racial event when a person is put down because they presented a threat to an officer and ignored the officers commands. This is not a color thing, This is a stupid thing and it comes in all colors all sizes and all sexes. Being an armed citizen is a huge responsibility, and there are a lot of people out there that are scared of armed citizens. They have a tendency to react unrationally when they see you are carrying a weapon. Some will confront you, others will call the local Law enforcement. Yes it angers me when I get hemmed up by LEOs because people are scared but it is part of carrying a weapon. If you follow instructions and stay calm and make no sudden moves and listen to the officers everything usually works out OK. Everyone goes home uninjured

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Sounds like you know your audience there in VA Ralph. Very smart advice given, thank you.

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Very interesting read @Ralph34 and mostly true. All LEO’s are not bad but, me being a Black man born and raised in Chicago, have experience both good and bad LEO’s. Sometimes even when I complied with some instructions, it still turned out bad for me. I was not a bad kid growing up but just going to the store for my moms could turn out to being disrespected by some LEO’s there.
Even as a grown man I have these two detectives follow me from my apartment to the laundry mat to help my wife and instead of getting in the car and riding back, I walked and guess what. Them same two detectives followed me back toward my apartment and have way there I all of a sudden fit the description. Before I knew it I was on the hood of their car without any questions asked. The way I made is safely back home I knew the guy that was in charge of OPS ( office of professional standards ), with just a mention of his name, they apologized. I call the guy at OPS, had his number programmed in my phone anyway because do to the way I was treated by LEO’s, we became close friends. The two detectives never worked my neighborhood again.

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@Lu-Can,

I’m sorry that occurred! It’s not fun when you are being investigated and profiled by Law-enforcement.

Did you ever file a complaint? I know the officer may have made a bad judgment call but his action deserves a immediate answer. Even though it won’t change what took place, an apology would be nice.

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Ralph,

That was my environment for over 30 years as a LEO and you likely even saw me involved in a lot of this training. But I feel differently than you and I will step up and defend someone who needs that help. If I can stop a bad guy from doing what he is trying to do then I will absolutely step to the plate. But I also admit I know how to de-escalate very quickly and be ready for arriving on duty LE or be ready for other off duty LEO’s to be present. Voice commands are so important here if you are going to take action. While I understand your hesitation I disagree on the “grave yards being filled” comment. In my years not once here in the DC area did I see an incident where a civilian used a firearm in defense of someone else get shot by a LEO. Has it happened? Of course but it is very rare. This is where planning and voice commands must come into play if you are going to carry a firearm. Even if you say you will not step up and assist others in a deadly force situation you still need to be ready for the time you may have to defend yourself or a loved one. The closest I came to having to take action in an off duty incident was the wife and I were driving down the road back in the early 80’s and my off duty weapon was a 5-shot S&W revolver I carried in my jacket pocket. (So low tech back then) and we saw a domestic along side the road between a man and woman and the woman was obviously very scared. I stopped and had the wife call local LEO’s on the Bell Atlantic bag phone we had in the car. We were on the border of my agency and a smaller city agency so no telling who would show up. Well the guy was very angry and went hands on a couple times, I kept telling him to back off and he mostly did. At one point he told her he would cut her as he reached into his pockets and my hand was already starting to draw the S&W. Luckily nothing came out and local LE arrived about then. I stepped back with hands raised away from my clothes saying I was a witness. Officers assessed things quickly and arrested the man. The officers did not know me until I identified myself and never once felt threatened by me. I really hope to never have to use deadly force to stop a bad guy as a civilian but I could not live with myself if I allowed one to kill or injure someone else.

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Well said brother @EODK9Trainer and I feel exactly the way you do. I won’t sit there and watch someone get killed right in front of me if I can prevent it. But being a good witness is good also. Agree with you 100 percent.:+1::+1:

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Very similar unfortunate and tragic situation in Jacksonville Florida last week. An young active duty Coast Guard woman confronted a car burglar outside her home and tried to hold him at gunpoint…he shot and killed her. As Kevin M says “its self defense, not “stuff” defense”

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