Long story short; wife and I were on the way home from a short grocery run when our daughter (12 years old at the time) called us and said she thought maybe someone was in the back yard. We told her to get her brother (16 at the time) and get into our closet because we were literally 3 blocks from home.
She called despite our instructions not to. When we arrived home, I swept the house, checked out the back yard with a flashlight from the windows and found nothing.
Police arrived 15 minutes later, then another squad car arrived shortly after. As two officers went around to the back yard, the first one on the scene approached me and asked if I had any weapons on me. We were in the driveway, not 15 feet from the front door. I said yes and he asked if he could detain my weapon for his safety. I politely asked if I could detain his weapon for my safety and he chuckled, then asked again and said that it was protocol to disarm anyone not law enforcement. I told him that since I was on my property, I preferred to remain armed if the other two found someone and a chase ensued. He said that it didn’t matter that I was on my property and that he had the authority to make such a demand.
After reluctantly allowing him to secure my weapon, he joined the two other friends in the back. I thought to myself…what if they spook someone hiding back there and he came around straight at me??
After they called all clear, I continued to express my concerns about securing my weapon while I was on my property; however, I was brushed off with the same response as before and they left the scene.
Is this the norm?? Legal?? I didn’t like it at all.
Honestly I would have told him straight up “If you don’t feel safe on MY property with me being armed then you’re free to LEAVE.”
I don’t know if it’s normal or legal, but I wouldn’t like it at all either.
I have extreme reservations about your encounter! It would be very difficult for me to surrender my weapon particularly when on my own property. I believe that I would have politely declined and made it clear that they were free to leave. I would also request from their office a copy of their procedures in such a scenario.
It’s not abnormal. Many departments have similar policies. If you’re the subject of a traffic stop, for example, an officer might request your firearm, even though you’re sitting in your property. I’m curious what the officer would have done if you had refused.
You can explain the problem with the policy to your police chief. However, I’ve found that such policies area very difficult to change unless someone at the top feels strongly about it. It was likely created by a do-gooder to protect officers, so anyone who wants to now remove it obviously hates officers, right?
Hey Michael that was funny when you said let me detain yours for my safety. I probably would have said the same thing. As a former LEO myself I just believe maybe the officer was inexperienced. I know that the uniform in the scene is in charge. You did the right thing securing your firearm when he asked. Just to avoid the drama it could have caused you. No harm no foul.
I believe I would have likely gone with the LEO request and not even considered other what if’s. Just trying to put myself in the same situation, since “I” called for assistance when it arrived I have turned my control over to them. I do not know them and they do not know me so I can understand, given the state of things today, why LE is concerned about how any situation might unfold. I completely get not wanting to give up my firearm, but if I’ve asked for their assistance then I’ll play by their rules. That’s just me, no advice here to anyone else.
I am curious what the actual law is on this. Of course it will vary from region to region.
I personally would have complied with the officer’s request and ushered my family to a safe place. I can understand their perspective. They do not know how proficient you are with that firearm. Even if someone was still on the property, they have very little assurance that you would not shoot one of the officers by mistake if there was a situation.
That’s a good point. A LEO can’t determine whether we merely own a firearm or whether we have a clue how to use it. I know people that own pistols and/or rifles and have never fired them. I wouldn’t want to go hunting with these people, let alone trust them to cover my 6.
I also know plenty of people that spend time shooting paper on a range, but have never trained to respond to a target that moves and shoots back. Also importantly, many of us might be expert sharpshooters by ourselves but not trained to shoot-move-communicate within a fire team. You might have all of these skills, but an LEO doesn’t know that. They aren’t even sure whether or not you’re one of those nuts who’s going to shoot them in the back for no reason.
I’m still curious what would happen if you had respectfully declined. I realize that could vary depending on state & local laws and the individual officer. Would they have simply left and told you you’re on your own? Could they have detained you for failure to follow instructions? I’m not suggesting anyone try this, I’m just curious how things could go wrong.
Yes, I would also have responded similarly, and complied. Though, if I was concerned about someone still being on the property, I would have gone inside and re-armed CC and not said anything. I would be very uncomfortable handing over my firearm to anyone - including a police officer.
It may be their policy, but we have all seen videos and read news stories of how well police handle their own firearms. I certainly would not trust a stranger to know how to properly handle my firearm, especially when loaded.
I have no disbeliefs that officers face a grim prospect when it comes to firearms in possession of others at a scene; or how obtaining control is in their best interest, albeit not mine in that particular situation.
Here’s what I do believe; above all, my rights do not end where your authority begins, additionally, your safety doesn’t supercede my rights because let’s face it, you are armed and have more discretion to point your firearm at someone than I do.
Someone can claim they don’t know my proficiency with a firearm and list it as a reason they don’t want me to have it. That’s fine, but that also doesn’t define your own proficiency and contend that I should request the same. I’ve (personally) known more officers to have shot themselves accidentally than I have known any of the circle of my friends to have done. As a matter of fact, I don’t have a single friend that has accidentally discharged a firearm.
It happened last year, I’m over it, I still have strong feelings about it, but we live and we learn. I will do things differently, within the realm of the law, if it were to happen again.
I was, indeed, concealing my firearm at the time it was requested.
I assumed so. But, like you, I strongly disagree with being told to give up my firearm on my own property.
What will you do differently in the future? Have you learned your police department’s policy on being armed on your own property in a non-firearm-related incident when the police arrive? Especially when you are conceal carrying.
Laws seem to be, by nature, restrictive rather than permissive. From what I have been reading, there are many laws that enable an officer to secure a weapon provided there is a minimum of suspicion that one has, or might, commit a crime.
I do not know what the law is where you live, but that would not fly in Kentucky. Taking your your firearm from you is a seizure and, in order to seize something, they either need a warrant, probable cause or reasonable suspicion that you committed or are committing a crime. That pesky Fourth Amendment!
But you do need to look at your states laws. Prior to Kentucky passing Constitutional Carry last year, police could require holders of concealed weapons to produce their permit and, since carrying a concealed weapon without a permit was illegal, the weapon could be seized while verifying it was a valid permit.
Although, on your own property? That seems a little over the top.
police could require holders of concealed weapons to produce their permit and, since carrying a concealed weapon without a permit was illegal, the weapon could be seized while verifying it was a valid permit.
Did this actually happen, or was it hypothetical?
It was at officer discretion. Most preferred not to disarm because it put a gun in play when it didn’t need to be. But there were times where it was prudent to disarm.
When the police finally arrived, I was in my driveway, carrying concealed. The officer in charge asked if I had a weapon on me. I said yes. When he asked to have possession of it for his safety, I expressed my disliking for it. I was then reminded by the officer that it was within his discretion to secure my firearm even while I was on my property. I was clearly not under suspicion, which is why I feel my rights were violated.
I am convinced that if I were to call them and ask, I would be brushed off and given another bogus response.
This thread tweaked my interest because I had never considered it since I’ve never been in the situation. I searched Alabama Law, but came up empty in regards to a clear answer. Absent a warrant, probable cause, or reasonable suspicion, the best that I could come up with was a vague reference to officer/public safety. I’m not sure that even applied to this situation. Anyway, thanks for a good thought provoking thread.