St. Louis Couple Charged With a Crime | Into the Fray - USCCA

What happens when you defend your home? People judge you. It will happen. You are seeing a prime example in the media right now.


This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://www.usconcealedcarry.com/blog/st-louis-couple-charged/
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Yes, they are being scrutinized.
Right or wrong they will be judged in the public eye.

It’s almost like the horrible company YELP but on steroids.

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I’m a 36 year retired police commander from a suburb that borders chicago. Any of my officers that were involved in a shooting, I would make sure that they used this phrase; The situation was intense, uncertain and rapidly evolving, this really has a way of setting up the scenario. I just became an elite member yesterday. I’m glad to be here.

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@David493 Welcome to the community. We hope you will share your experience with us. Stay safe, Bruce and Nancy. :+1:

So, you think it is the best decision to run outside barefoot, flailing guns around at people who are walking by on the street?
Your statements that they were “allegedly” threatening them could and should easily have been avoided by going inside that fortress of a house, calling the cops, and staying away from the windows.
This is the reason a lot of people are demanding more control over guns. We as a community need to teach each others how to react and how to act to avoid sh… like this from ever happening.
Your article is heavily angled in defense of the couple of dumbkopfs who rush out to face the crowd. Get the facts straight and be objective.

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Welcome @David493 and thank you for your service!

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The couple did call the police, they even called local private eyes and knowone came. Grouo broke through a locked gate . So what do u do wait till the mob comes in the house. Some people just dont seem to have common sense

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Seems like a better way of saying “I felt threatened”. Word will be parsed, twisted, and questioned. What we say, and don’t say can make all the difference.

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@Mikael My understanding is that the police had been called and had fore knowledge but never showed. They weren’t just walking by on the sidewalk "walking down the street. These “peaceful protestors” and broken down a gate on private property. Protesters threatened to burn their house down. There were a lot of things they could have, should have done better, I wasn’t there. I saw the same film everyone else did. It seems to me, we’re excercising our “Right to hindsight”. I watch their clip, and think they didn’t have much experience with firearms. I thought it was balanced from the point of view that he said he wasn’t commenting of right or wrong of the actions, but only wanted to point out there is always an aftermath.

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Hi David493,

I would say welcome, even though I just join USCCA today, from TN. :blush:

Thank you for your service, SIr. :slight_smile:

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I understand this video is about “facing the music” in the media and the aftermath of defending their home, but the truth is responsible gun owners and home defenders know that what this couple did is flat out wrong. The USCCA needs to properly use this scenario to talk about how families should defend their home in cases like this instead of divisive opinionated politics.

We need to know about brandishing laws, proper home defense, firearm psychology and obviously more gun safety. No matter what you want to call people marching in the street doesn’t matter. State the facts about the incident and don’t down play the fact that a couple pointed guns at a crowd of people.

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If they are members of USCCA, would USCCA defend them?

Kevin, first let me say I agree with you 100% on the McCloskey’s being out in the open. But to call peaceful protesters “rioters” is so wrong. I had to go back and read the article to make sure I didn’t miss something. The protesters walked through the open gate because at the time it wasn’t broken down. You said the McCloskey’s stopped people from attacking their house because they brandished their weapon. It looks like they escalated the situation by brandishing their weapons because the protesters were not looking for them. If I saw 300 people walking down my street, I wouldn’t point my gun at them (no way you could reload that many times and stop all of them). I would look to see where they were going and why. What have the McCloskey’s done to think that 300 people are coming for them? My dad always said “what is a good night sleep worth?” People are marching/protesting because they want justice. People are tired of police brutality, and numerous other problems in our society that people of color face. Many videos have shown that the rioters were not part of the peaceful protest, and they were actually trying to make the situation worse.

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Good Question, I look forward to the ansewer.

I’m new member in search of unbiased, nonpolitical education to learn how to better handle my gun. But is it so hard for Kevin and the USCCA to take a stand and say this is flat out wrong and it goes against our training and what we stand for as an institution? The one lesson I’ve seen here over and over is “We do not use our guns to protect property”

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Easy to criticize after the fact. What should they have done different? The MOB had crashed a steel gate and were on PRIVATE PROPERTY already; not “walking down the street”. The MOB was orally threatening to burn down their house, rape the wife, kill the dog, etc. At that point are they expected to think these are idle threats? So wait inside the house with your weapons at the ready. When the MOB breaches the front door or windows they would then be shot. Now you are actually defending your “castle” but now there are DEAD PEOPLE so what is better?

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Not just “property”. They were present in the property so threats to the “property” are threats to them personally. Plus the MOB orally THREATENED bodily harm, arson, rape, and murder. At what point do you stand up for yourself and your family? I think they did ok considering they are civilians. If they had stayed in hiding in the house it’s very LIKELY it would have emboldened the MOB to breach the front door or windows and thus JUSIFY deadly force and now you have DEAD BODIES.

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If they are willing to burn down and beat people how do you NOT point your weapon in a threatening manner to stop their actions, we are only one person at a time being thrown under the bus.

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Thank you for the comment reply, but again , I am here for unbiased, nonpolitical, non-radical, common sense self-defense education. Per the USCCA and CCW training, I do not see any unavoidable, imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm. Will it be too much to ask of Kevin and USCCA to educate us so that you, Thomas197 don’t have to.

If the St. Louis Couple were members and had been educated by the USCCA, then they wouldn’t be in this legal nightmare. And by the USCCA taking a stand and declaring this type of behavior wrong they can help their members avoid similar circumstances.

Regardless of how much protesters “orally THREATENED bodily harm, arson, rape, and murder”. Ha ha if you read this quote out loud, you’ll hear how ridiculous it sounds as a defense argument in court

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Good point, it is really hard to justify an action months later in a courtroom. But I would say that there was danger. To stand your ground exposed to rocks, bottles, sticks, & possible bullets, shows a lack of training? ( I would suggest a firing position with over head cover, something in front of me that will stop a round, and an interlocking field of fire). As to the couple’s actions, they were not short on bravery. I would like to see in, maybe the next USCCA an after action review of the whole event. LESSONS LEARNED

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