I haven’t posted in a while but you have inspired me because I agree with you 100%.
Some people in the community do not realize — or understand — that you can be charged with brandishing on your own property (which I have tried to explain.) People also don’t seem to understand that you can’t just point your gun at people for trespassing or — in some cases — for entering your home. You have to respond appropriately based on the threat and be able to articulate that in the defense of your actions. See this thread:
It’s also important to note that Kevin Michalowski said in the video that he doesn’t care about whether or not what they did was right or wrong. He’s simply making a point that they have to face the consequences of their actions, right or wrong. He’s just being a salesman for USCCA.
Hindsight is 20-20. The charges are politically motivated and will be dropped or quashed by the AG.
The McCloskeys are one of the few to stood up to the Rioters and Looters and they are safe and their house is still standing and not a smoldering heap, their defensive posture wasn’t perfect but it worked.
This isn’t a debate. I don’t care.
I was a member of USCCA until my state made it illegal to own insurance sold in Washington state. In a recent election my candidate for insurance commissioner, with a canidate wanting to overturn the current commissioners decision (a Dem commissioner) over 8 candidates were running. I told everyone I could but the ballot had too many candidates running and people here continue the loss of rights and ignorance of what is going on. Use a gun here for any reason, expect to go to jail and defend with your own money.
Missouri case law suggests it does not go so far as permitting the use of deadly force to merely protect property. In 2016, the Missouri Court of Appeals for the Eastern District held in State v. Whipple that deadly force under the castle doctrine can only be used when you reasonably believe such force is necessary to protect yourself or someone else from “the use or imminent use of unlawful force.”
What they did is illegal. I’m not saying I am against what they did but this is going to be a legal nightmare for them. The unfortunate reality of it is — their house could have become a smoldering heap and what they did would still be illegal.
Apparently the threats were made AFTER the couple came out with their firearms NOT before.
Not sure about the state this incident occurred but in my state, yeah I’m in jail for that. Here you have the right to protect your LIFE not your PROPERTY.
Also in this great blue state I unfortunately live in, you have the "duty to retreat " which means just stay in the house and call 911. Now if they then attempt to enter I can then "brandish " in an “attempt to stave off what I perceived as a threat to my life.” However, again love this blue anti gun state, if I use the firearm and they don’t have one guess what, yup unjustified use of deadly force (at least that’s what the DA here will say.
Amen to that. I play scenarios in my head. If I were to hear someone smashing my car window in the middle of the night, could I defend my property? If I use USCCA app to pull up my state laws I find, no I cannot, unless a child or someone else is in the car. I can call 911 or yell at them, but no use of force. If I hear someone in my house, and they run when caught. Nope again. The threat has stopped. Doing this in my head makes sure I know before I have to do it for real.
"These people " were NOT innocent peaceful protesters. They were trouble makers. Yes, I would have stayed inside. If even one however had crossed the threshold or thrown a fire bomb there would have been Hell to pay. Perhaps by showing they were ready to use their weapons was a deter ant. Much better than cutting one of them in half with a 12 ga. shotgun loaded with #1 buckshot. Much worse than that little play toy army type rifle he was waving around. Get a life Mikael!
“Flat out wrong” was what the mob in front of their home were doing. As a responsible gun owner, someone needs to teach Patricia the correct way to hold a pistol. Also NEVER put your finger on the trigger unless you plan to kill something. These were just two very frightened people who thought a lynch mob was coming for them. It makes no difference the color of your skin or how rich or poor one is or your political belief. "We Dare Defend our Rights!
I’m so tired of hearing “people of color” and “African-American” They are BLACK or Negro. Just as I am WHITE or Northern European. What ever you are be PROUD! We fought against King William so they called us “Hillbillies & Rednecks” So what if you’re a Dago , Wop, Hispanic, or Kike, This is America, BE PROUD!
Welcome, Commander David (Ret.!)
Thank you for sharing an excellent response. It should be repeated/practiced so often that, if ever needed, it becomes an automatic response.
It may not possess the same power and understanding in a sterile courtroom with people who have never experienced the terror of a violent attack, but it opens the door to recreate, break down, and define all three: intense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving.
What I also appreciate about the phrase is that it addresses the situation, not the individual. “I was scared” puts the focus back on me, my mental state, etc. to defend.
Bob, re-read his post. He didn’t say they were peaceful protesters. But it’s clear that many of them were. OK, so some punks were running their mouth about burning down the house, etc. Really? That house is more of fortress than the Wells Fargo bank near my house. No, people should not be trespassing. With their wealth, they could handle replacing a few trampled bushes instead of needlessly exposing themselves, pointing guns at unarmed people, and becoming fodder for the media.
As a high school teacher I had many grateful students, but my Toyota Land Cruiser was vandalized several times, in the school parking lot, on ‘report card day’ by a few dysfunctional, frustrated students. While irritated, of course, my response was to be thankful for a paycheck, the privilege of owning an awesome vehicle, and drop it off at the body shop. Taking the high road didn’t go unnoticed.
So many “training” responses could come from this! It will be interesting, as this plays out and more information becomes available, to see how/if USCCA would/could respond.
I’m not a lawyer, but I suspect that how our coverage is defined affects USCCA’s legal ability to respond.
You cannot insure yourself from willful criminal acts.
We could use further explanation/scenario “training” in this as well to avoid surprises/disappointments.
Stay safe Bruce and Nancy.