How would you handle home defense where an angry armed mob trespasses on your property and is making threats to you and your family on your life and death and wanting to burn your home down as Mark and Patrica McCloskey from St Louis, MO?
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Welcome to the family Bill.
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Welcome. That very question and the ramifications are being debated all over the country. For legal purposes your state and locality will set the parameters of your response. While the McCloskeyâs were successful in there efforts the final word has not been stated as to IF they will be charged with a crime. No matter what I would hope that anyone else will have much better firearms handling skills.
Cheers,
Craig6
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Welcome to the community @Bill12!!!
I agree with @Craig6 much of this answer will depend on your State laws.
We were actually discussing it some at the range today. Do you let them trespass onto your property (e.g. the front yard/lawn) and hold the line behind the door inside with the family safe and secure?
But then what if they start damaging your house? Still no action because we âonly defend lives not property?â
Well what if that damage escalates to setting your house on fire? Then what? Now youâre in reactive mode attempting to escape with your family from a house that is burning surrounded by rioters.
Now there was no evidence of that in the McCloskey incident, but there were several fires set in a number of cityâs, so what makes you think your home is not next with a large gathering of people that had just destroyed the gate to your neighborhood to come through? (although most of it was to businesses/government buildings, few residential fires is my understanding)
Do you make your presence known out in front of the house unarmed (or concealed)? Your very presence may encourage the violence youâre attempting to avoid.
Do you go out there with your AR-15 and encourage the demonstrators to move along once they get to a certain point on your property? Letting them know that âthe trouble that awaits at this house is not worth it, move along.â Assuming proper weapon handling and adherence to the 4 rules of gun safety, might not be a bad approach, but how do you prove thatâs all you were doing?
I think the McCloskeyâs made a good team, however Mrs McCloskey (based on her weapons handling) should have grabbed the house ph to call 911 while at the same time grabbing her cell ph to record the events that were occurring so that they could have evidence from their vantage point to defend themselves. Outside of flagging his wife and maybe a few protestors, I donât think Mr McCloskey was out of line or outside of his rights for the State of MO. God help him if he lived in a less âfreeâ State, like a couple of those way out West (or way out East).
So for my State, thatâs what I would do, have the wife stay inside with her weapon available, but to call the police and record everything with her phone. I would simply go stand out on my porch (with the AR visible) and encourage anyone that came within 20yds of the house to move along and let them know the police had been called. I would also have several canisters of my POM OC spray in my pocket as a first defense for anyone defying the 20yd line and aggressively moving towards me or the house. The second defense for me would be the AR.
At least thatâs what I think I would do.
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Great point @Fizbin, but since my wife only makes it to the range about 2x a year on our family âmandatory range training daysâ I wouldnât want her out on the front line at least initially.
But again, great point, âverbal judoâ can go a long way and should be our very first line of defense.
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That video of the McCloskeyâs sold a lot of AR-15s,⊠500 vs 2. I am not sure where the disconnect is occurring in law enforcement, but the McCloskeyâs have been thrown to the BLM wolves and no one from local and State LE is going to help them.
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Slip out the back door and bounce lead off of some steel plates.
Offer lemonaid to anyone that wants to chat.
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Not negotiating in this case, just not saying anything to elevate the situationâŠe.g. Hey guys whatâs up, peacefully protesting this afternoon? Cool, good on you for exercising your 1st Amendment rights, the mayors house is actually over two subdivisionsâŠwhat am I doing? Oh Iâm here exercising my 2nd Amendment rights to defend my family and property (allowed in my State) against any shenanigans like we all saw on tv over the last couple weeks, but yaâll are âpeacefullyâ protesting right, not damaging property or threatening anyone?..Cool, you know âdonât start none, wonât be noneâ has always been my motto,âŠgood luck with your protests.
That seems to fit the St Louis scenarioâŠI donât believe the mob was threatening to burn their house down but could be wrong, dialogue might be a little more intense but still same vein, and if they were I donât know if they would get the benefit of pepper spray being my first reaction for anyone charging me or the house.
Oh and Iâm not waiting on the police to come and defend meâŠIâve got that coveredâŠI just need to make sure Iâve got that box checked in pre-fight checklist.
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So, it was ok for them to point guns at peaceful âBLMâ Protestors? They were both very aggressive.
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So, as a new member of USCAA, I already donât feel welcomed. You think it was ok, for this couple to point weapons at peacful âBLMâ protestors? I am not sure if you are aware, but it is that type of behavior (along with the obvious horrific events) that had led to a significant increase of Black people becoming first-time gun owners. We are scared, we feel misunderstood, unheard, and certainly unprotected. We just want to be heard, understood, and to stand with all brothers and sisters from EVERY background, color, creed, denomination, sexual orientation, gender, etc. With that bring said, please for one moment put yourself in our shoes, and how we felt by having people point guns at usâŠinstead of unifying with use for the sake of humanity not some simple ass race war!
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Sure looked to me like anyone who didnât want a gun pointed at them could leave or not break down a gate to be there in the first place. That was not a âpeacefulâ group by any definition.
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@DLC. I 'm listening.
A good place to start would be with helping me to understand how breaking a gate and trespassing, invading private property and the sanctity of a manâs home, 'en mass, are considered peacefull actions? Please.
Hereâs a hint:
- breaking windows, looting, burning businesses, and cop cars, assailing police and citizens are not peacefull actions.
- If a cause is being, or has been, hijacked and people are being misunderstood because of it: it is not a good idea for âorganizational leadersâ to go on national TV and say âif we dont get what we want we may just burn the system downâ
Iâve seen the tears in the eyes of children (mine) who were treated different and who have been assaulted verbally and even physically because of their skin tone.
However, the desired end state does NOT justify any and all means. The system we live in is not perfect. There will always be ignorance, no matter how you group people or what the political system. But tearing down the only system in the world that truly is based on the premise that all men are created equal is NOT the answer.
I am truly baffled how many seem to actually believe that Marxist ideals are the answer when the largest communist country in the world right this minute has imprisioned entire sub-cultures in re-education centers while it censors and monitors billions of people from behind a giant firewall.
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Nah, theyâve not been thrown to the BLM âWolvesâ as you so succinctly put it. They did do something very illegal and local and state le should be doing something about it.
Or let me ask a different way; if these people were trespassing on private property (a road is NOT private property. Nor is a boardwalk as it is owned by the city and the city is owned by itâs people) why is it out of that private community, ONLY the McCloskeys are the ones in the hot seat? Could it be itâs because they choose to engage with firearms and poor trigger discipline? Pointing what we have to assume is a loaded weapon at people? If you stand in solidarity with the McCloskeys, I would like for you to walk outside your door and point your weapon at random people. Let us know how that goes?
And as far as âBLM wolvesâ You are part of the problem in the world today.
@JayK
Unless you are here to troll, please address the respectfully stated questions and points in these threads instead of name calling or labeling without seeking to understand.
BTW: Private roads do exist in A LOT of locations, the residents maintain them and not the city county. Iâve even seen private driveways that were long enough that google labeled them with the name of the road that they were off of.
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LOL, please tell me how Iâm trolling? I did address the questions but through a comment or reply here on the thread. Please let me know where I named called? If I name called, it would have been in response to someone who name called first yet I donât see you admonishing that person? Just me?
Could it be your stigma associated with BLM?
Private roads do exist in a lot of places but Iâve yet to see or know of one that is maintained by the citizens. Granted, with the exception of Cali, Iâve only lived in states that have snow and the average citizen doesnât have the kind of trucks to plow a road. Just because a road is in a private community, doesnât mean the road is owned by the citizens. In fact, the fact, being the sewage and water/power lines go under the road means itâs pubic right of way as the citizens cannot own public utilities.
Iâve been a member for the past year + and this is my first time on the forums. My very first post was met with hostility and anger. Iâve since spoken to a few people and weâve hit it off well.
Donât let some of the bad people stop you from posting and having your opinions. Keep telling your truth as I will mine and possibly, one day, we can all agree what and where problems are and move forward.
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Welcome to the Community @DLC.
Everyone is welcome here to have respectful conversations about we can best defend ourselves and our loved ones. We do not expect everyone to agree on every subject, but we do require the disagreement to be expressed respectfully.
During these very difficult times having these conversations with an open mind will help everyone in every side of the situation learn from each other.
Part of the greatness of our country comes from our diversity and our ability to respect the right of others to see things differently than we do. It doesnât mean we agree, it means weâre diverse on many levels and we respect the diversity.
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To the question, to make Greg1 happy, let me respond directly;
How would I handle home defense with an angry mob? Iâd do exactly what the majority of the McCloskeyâs other neighbors did; CONTINUE ON MY DAY! See, they are the ones all over the news because they choose to react in an uncivil way. How many other neighbors felt the need to go outside with guns? When did the death threats start? When they were inside their homes? Or was it after they exited their homes with guns pointed at people who were posing no threat to them?
Cause and effect. Weâve all learned about it in second grade schooling.
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You really donât leave a person anyplace to go when you close with :
And now I need to âdefend my stigma with BLMâ?
Are you going to ask me if I still beat my wife next?
Where I live private roads are private and are maintained to the counties standards by the residents.
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