Saw the video and was disgusted (you know which one). Why didn’t law enforcement, from that moment, prepare for the aftermath? Why did very few business and personal property owners protect their investments?
Personally, I would feel comfortable seeing those four officers face charges of murder. Would you agree? Imagine seeing the roles reversed with a citizen’s knee in a detained officer’s neck while 3 other citizens “watched his six” while the officer pleas to breathe, but just dies instead.
The video, the resulting riots, the whole damn thing is just one mess justified by another mess and I’m not entirely sure that if I were in the situation…I wouldn’t just be one of the rioters.
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What are you saying, people should stand with guns on top of their family store, like some Koreans did in 1992 in LA? That’s brandishing, illegal!
Now, I’ll get serious - not justified, not ever. Target or Autozone didn’t kill this poor guy. Looters don’t care about the guy, nor about the community, nor about justice.
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My point, exactly, sir.
There were no signs of vested individuals even trying to protect their property. I’m not saying they should be openly carrying rifles.
Not justified to me, sir, but seemingly justified to them.
The only change I could see coming from this is businesses moving away from the area (loss of jobs) and law enforcement driving for more officers on payroll.
What a mess.
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Lookup “guys protect tobacco store”, there is a clip on Youtube. I am not sure what they were prepared to do if a mob were to come their way.
I could be wrong, but I think I have an idea why this tragedy happened in Minneapolis. Being a stronghold of liberalism usually means city government focused on corruption and politics. They may signal virtues, but policing is bad, businesses run away from crime and taxes, community relationships are bad, racial tensions escalate. Old story!
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The two officers each have histories of violence and suppressing the rights of putative offenders. They were never disciplined, even when one lost a lawsuit.
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As for the four Police officers, I am still saying to myself, What happened the moment they tried to put him in the back seat of the car? I have to think something happened. Videos I have watched skipped that moment. I know he was hand cuffed and getting put into the car. I can not understand what got him to the ground in the first place. The fact he died is a no brainer, it went too far! There were 4 Police Officers! It was for a fake $20.00 bill. No weapons involved and he was, again, in hand cuffs.
Dr. Martin L. King would not be happy about the actions taken. Actions would be taken but, not criminal actions that effect innocent people.
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While there is a valid complaint and the officers, at least the one directly involved, should be charged with murder…
JUSTICE is NOT looting a flat screen TV.
Any moral value is LOST when they loot the Target and burn the Autozone.
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This is what happens when the police get to police themselves. All police departments should have to answer to a citizens committee of no less than 12 people. And any officer should be relieved of his duty after 3 verified complaints and not be allowed to continue in that profession the rest of his life.
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I will say up front that I will default to the officers EVERY time pending the results of an investigation and not trial by news media.
That said if it is found during autopsy that the man’s vital structures were compromised by prolonged exposure to pressure I will endorse a criminal charge against the officer.
Now here is my biggest problem with this case…
First Aid ABC’s: Airway, Breathing and Circulation a given fact.
If you don’t have an air way and you cannot breathe YOU CANNOT SPEAK.
In trauma medicine if you are talking to me A & B are checked as SAT (Satisfactory) This man was saying he could not breathe which given the above means. He was breathing.
After the drama of Ferguson and NYC I am more than a little skeptical of any news media reporting on police abuse and will wait for the final outcome before passing judgement.
Now as to the rioters and looters, there is no excuse and … well I’ll just leave it right there.
Cheers,
Craig6
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Yes, just as the Koreans protected their investment so should all store owners and home owners. Until you have been fired upon attempting to protect yourself and property (Mexico Beach) you cannot make a call. I applaud the Korean Gun Store Owners and anyone who protects their investment, be it personal or property.
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I am with you on this 100%. I cant count how many times we see a snippet of a video (if even that) and outrage begins, and later when facts come out it is exactly the opposite of what was initially believed. (Donut Operator on YouTube has a great “liar liar pants on fire” series of videos debunking some of these)
But this case with Floyd is definitely not that.
There is about a 10min+ video with Floyd on the ground with the officers knee on his neck. I highly recommend anyone who wants to know why the outrage watch it. I understand that police will need to apply pressure to get an unwilling subject into custody, including maybe a knee on the back/neck. But throughout the entirety of the 10min+ video Floyd was subdued, cuffed, and prone and the need for continued pressure was long gone.
Floyd complained about airflow for about 3mins (yes, I know they ALWAYS say they cant breath, and technically if they can talk there is air but it doesnt mean airflow isnt reduced). Around 330 he started moaning (it sounds like agonal breathing), it sounded terrible and I thought to myself… this man is gonna die. Around 4mins Flloyd is no longer responsive, I am pretty sure he had expired at this point. Even if he hadnt expired, he was passed out from lack of oxygen, or in the small chance he was still alive he had clearly decided to stop struggling and take a nap.
The officer pinning him down continued for another 6 minutes to put his knee on the back of Floyd’s neck. He only stopped when EMTs showed up to take his pulse.
Now, subjectively… this is my opinion… it looked like that officer was leaning his entire weight on Floyd’s neck maliciously. Maybe in the non-video portion of the altercation Floyd did something to make the officer angry, and this was his payback. It looks terrible.
The crowd around the scene becomes increasingly agitated, and the one officer stops paying attention to Floyd & the officer and pays attention only to the crowd. I do not know what charges, if any, he will face.
I thought to myself, what could I do in that situation? I am certainly not tackling a police officer off of the suspect. I decided that I would call 911 and urgently request additional officers on the scene and give an account of what is going on. Or maybe attempt to mediate between the officers and the crowd (a small crowd) and ask them to back up so the 2nd officer can check on the subject’s health.
Indeed. Just last night they burned a police station. I have never understood the mentality that burns your own neighborhood down.
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I have to admit, I am usually skeptical when it comes to watching videos for the very reason others have quoted. So many people, from all citizens, all other officers, to the police chief, to the governor, to the POTUS… see more than a mere incident.
I don’t expect everyone to believe what I believe and we all have opinions. I couldn’t claim to be skeptical of every video on the news, yet claim to automatically believe law enforcement first and foremost. Isn’t that bias in itself? So, by extension, we could eliminate court hearings and allow law enforcement to be judge, jury and executioner?
I say, question everything.
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I’m still toiling over the fact that the police ran away from their building and what the governor says…just blows me away.
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How about letting the wheels of justice turn? I’ve seen the video … it’s pretty damning. However, calling for charges before the investigation has even started makes us no better than the looters and rioters who cannot wait for the court process to play out. I find it unfortunate that our entire nation jumps to conclusions based on a video, and refuses to let the legal process work.
The wheel of justice turn slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine.
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Allow me to reel myself in a little bit. While I would to see charges brought against the officers involved, it doesn’t extend into a desire to hang them without due process. I do get carried away from time to time and say things that are open ended.
I can’t grasp the concept fairness when taking sides with law enforcement as an automatic response, then claim to be distrusting of everything else. I am a very skeptical individual, of everyone except my inner circle (small) and I believe that if news outlets are capable of being deceptive, then so can law enforcement. Calling for charges (and desiring a fair trial) doesn’t damn anyone, it’s merely my prerogative and I’m highly suspect that my opinion will have any weight in their future.
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He was getting air,airway wasn’t closed off, that’s true. It was restricted, which I have no doubt about. It could have aggravated an unknown respiratory issue.
It’s being tried in Nashville, however, a committee has to understand policies of the department. However, it has to be impartial. Over time, I don’t see that happening.
Anyone checked MSM headlines? Like, Chicago Tribune, MSNBC, NYT? Racism, stereotypical slander, prejudice. When will MSM stop fomenting all this stuff?
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I can only speak for myself. “usually” law enforcement is only around when some crime is being committed. So “usually” it is LEO facing off against a criminal in their interactions. Police dont generally go around interacting with folks abiding by the law unless its just to say hello have a nice day and that wont end up on body cam footage.
So in general, do I lean in favor of the police when there is a he said/he said? Yes.
Additionally, over the past decade (or two?) about 90% of the instances where a police officer did something bad, and riots ensued, the police were later exonerated. So past history of the police “usually” being on the right side also makes me lean in favor of the police.
But (at least for me) leaning one way at the start doesn’t mean I stay that way. This case is an example of that. When I first heard about it, I figured there was more to the story. Then I watched the video… and it is damning evidence against the police officer. I am not a judge or jury, and I 100% hope he (and the other officers) get their fair day in court because in the eyes of the law he is (or should be) innocent until proven guilty.
The Arbery case (again, for me) is a case where there is not “enough” evidence and there seem to be many plot-holes that likely wont get filled in until the trial. But I lean in the direction of “awful but lawful” for that case (I dont want to derail this thread with that topic though).
If more evidence pops up, I will revisit my opinion on this case. But right now, that police officer sure looks guilty. It isnt a reason to burn your city to the ground though.
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There are officers I consider friends, some I have acquaintances with and some I don’t know at all. Just as I don’t trust people in general, I wouldn’t trust you to tell the truth any more than you would trust me, though I do give more weight to those members in this forum than I would something like meeting perfect strangers.
I don’t suspect everyone is telling lies, just as don’t suspect law enforcement is. I listen, pay attention to tone and body posture along with what credibility I might endow, I simply don’t believe everything I hear as something I can take to the bank. If that’s wrong to some, then that’s their point of view.
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