Non Trump supporting gun owners

True, true…I just wonder what HRC would have done?

4 Likes

Well that’s the ONLY argument. And it’s not a good one. The lesser of two evils is still an evil.

So you’re not voting FOR the person, you are voting against their opponent? That’s what we are seeing right now BTW in the DNC, each candidates platform is basically “I’m not trump”.

I get it. I’m either forced to vote for someone who kinda doesn’t like my guns and is ok with gun control. Or I am forced to vote for someone who really doesn’t like my guns and wants to push gun control. That about summarizes it, wouldn’t you agree?

Again I get it. But then don’t pee on my head and call it rain. Don’t claim that candidate A is a champion of gun rights, for the one and only fact that they aren’t Hillary. Is trump better than Hillary on gun rights? Absolutely. But let’s be honest, that’s a very low standard to beat, and being less anti gun than Hillary does not defacto make someone “pro gun”.

4 Likes

You’re putting words in my mouth. I voted for President Trump because he isn’t a Washington insider, because he calls out the lies of most of the media, because he puts America first, because he has vastly improved the economy, because he keeps his promises, and because he doesn’t think he owns what’s mine or is entitled to take what others worked for and give it to people who want socialism. I’m sorry to rain on your parade. Vote for whomever you wish. That’s your right. And may you keep that right for a long, long time.

5 Likes

Personal opinions expressed here.
With all politicians: I take what they say with a grain of salt. Don’t tell me that you’re not like XYZ, tell me what you’re going to do (I’ll take it with a grain of salt). You are not my “leader” you are my representative, please represent my interests, not big business’.

@45IPAC hit the nail on the head for me on this one. :confused:

8 Likes

I highly respect 45ipac and others who risk posting on political topics. However, as our nation becomes more and more divided we cannot just rationalize and say that both sides are the same. Freedom and oppression are not two wings attached to the same buzzard. A century ago the issue was freedom and slavery. Would anyone say that both sides were equally bad in that fight. In the 60s the fight was for racial equality. Again, one side had it right while the other was on the wrong side of history. Today we are divided over numerous issues. On some I agree with the left, on others the right. For me freedom and preserving the Constitution are paramount as without them we lose the right to debate all other issues.

5 Likes

My point about the same side is being played out in numerous locals. Many are open about there intentions. Since this is a self defense focused page, I’ll stay on that. Reps and Senators from both sides support SOME infringement of our rights. The “I support the 2nd amendment, but” has become their byline. When any of them, regardless of and R or D are willing to violate the Constitution, they are the same in the eyes of the founding fathers. Different wings, same buzzard.

5 Likes

I am a Certified NRA and State Firearms Instructor and Competition shooter.
So I “cannot” vote for “any” Democrat.

BUT
Trump lost me when he said McCain was not a War Hero.

Trump - “I like heroes who don’t get caught - ok.”

NO! that is NOT “OK”. You A*s hole.
McCain was shot down over the middle of Hanoi City and fell into the large pond directly in the middle.

They broke his arm and beat him getting him out.
Then he spent, what, 6 yrs in torture in the Hanoi Hilton.
Never could lift one arm above his shoulder.

“Not a war hero” - my A*sss.
And he DJT continues to lie to us most every day.
Mostly for “his” own personal gain.
Which seems to be his “primary” objective.
“Unfortunately” still better than any DEM out there.
But I still don’t like his Continued Lying to all of us.

8 Likes

Defender while I dont totally agree with your assessment of McCain and Trump I fully understand your position. I have good friends and family who are Democrats who just cant change their vote to an independent or Republican even though they disagree with much of the Democrats party platform. Kind of makes my head spin.:crazy_face::crazy_face::crazy_face:

6 Likes

I do not agree with you on your assessment on McCain or any other political figures. Once anybody transitions from military to politics he or she then becomes fair game to criticize, call names, rebuke, and its game-on and open season on him or her. John McCain was a politician and you’re aware every politician has been either praised or hated or both. Politicians sign up for this criticism, that is not able to be disputed.

3 Likes

This is a perfect example of just because you can doesn’t mean you should. When you look at the political rhetoric as it has become less professional and more personal the divide in this has and will continue grow.

Like it or not the public figures in this country have a huge influence on how the public acts. I don’t remember a time before Trump when so many people called for so much hate. And now people wonder why there is so much hate in this country.

There has to be some level of professionalism and restraint.

4 Likes

I agree with you, but in my opinion that train ran off the tracks long long before Trump. Probably about 75 years ago discourse started. Even before Dwight Eisenhower we had it and truth be told our political parties and political culture is in large part to blame and there’s one thing politics does in that it brings out the worst and also the best in people more hatred than good. I remember Ike Eisenhower well and when he warned America that the Military Industrial Complex is bad, horrible things happened to Ike. He went from Hero to Zero pretty quick.

3 Likes

I agree it’s derailed. Just wish the ones trying to fix it had a louder voice. But we’ve all seen how the media handles anything that doesn’t fit the agenda.

3 Likes

Yep, somewhere between the two world wars some people realized the economies of scale and distribution of materials could be mustered to win a war by production of goods from one part of the world out to every other. And that to convince a population that they not only could but should do that, they needed to become the self proclaimed guardians of the world.
There was a real and present evil upon the planet, and,who better to do this thing than that people who had a mandate to do so? - A divine right so to speak, in that our nation was newly created and righteous in our ways because we had a republic and it was the best form of government ever made! (And we’d better make the populace believe it said the captain’s of industry!)
So,here we are. The world’s police force! No body else was doing it, and those who tried before us were a pox on the land. (Failures in our eyes we said, just look at what we’d done.) For a while,due to limitations of world wide communication on the granular level, individual to individual, it seemed to work. Today though is a new day and what was is changing in New ways not seen before in our collective memory.

2 Likes

Well truly the last time the media (all media) and both political parties were one cohesive entity happened or occurred was during the presidency of FDR when he made his speech in the Congress of the US, when America we entered WWII in 1940 when Pearl Harbor was attacked and WWII began was the last time it happened.

1 Like

I really love our conversation but I need to go grocery shopping and it’s bad weather here in Chicagoland we have a serious wind storm so I will catch everyone later my Community friends.

1 Like

Agreed on all points. I also get it, but have to deal with what’s on the table in front of me rather than what I wish was on the table.

2 Likes

Just to show that lies, smears, and negative campaigning aren’t new, or even a recent thing. Here’s an excerpt from an article about the presidential election of 1800:

Negative campaigning in the United States can be traced back to John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. Back in 1776, the dynamic duo combined powers to help claim America’s independence, and they had nothing but love and respect for one another. But by 1800, party politics had so distanced the pair that, for the first and last time in U.S. history, a president found himself running against his VP.

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson’s camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman." In return, Adams’ men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father." As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward. Even Martha Washington succumbed to the propaganda, telling a clergyman that Jefferson was “one of the most detestable of mankind.”

Today’s candidates and media are following in the footsteps of our ancestors. They are just more blunt and agenda driven these days.

3 Likes

“…that is not able to be disputed.”

Really?

I seriously doubt McCain “signed-up” to be criticized for being shot-down
in the middle of Hanoi.
ps The most Heavily defended city in the world - at that time - with Russian
AA missiles.

ps I can & will “Dispute” any thing I want whenever I want.

Nor did he(McCain) sign-up to be Criticized for being Brutally Tortured in the Hanoi-Hilton for 6 yrs.

Of course Trump is Tortured by having to play Golf most every weekend.
When he said (during the campaign) he would not have any time for it.
Another of the “many” lies.

So maybe it does even out?

1 Like

Dude, I’m not talking military here. I never signed up to take 2 bullets from a Vietnamese sniper in my damn leg in 1968 as a platoon leader. I’m making reference to and only referencing politicians and only politicians. Their career (Politicians) career choices to be politicians is something that begs to be criticized. At any given time at least if not more you have half the people in the country PO’d at you at the National level. I dare state it’s very likely the same at the state level, and I’m also going to bet that it’s the same at the county and big city level. Now please don’t make this about Trump please, I don’t care about him. I have gone back politically nearly 100 Years.

1 Like