In 2019, there were about 276 million registered vehicles in the US. That includes cars, trucks, motorcycles, and buses. That same year, there were 36,096 motor vehicle crash (accident) deaths reported, or about 131 per million vehicles.
Also in 2019, according to the Gun Violence Archive*, there were about 39,534 firearms deaths, or using your 400 million firearms number, about 99 deaths per million firearms. Taking out the 24,090 suicides, the number drops to 15,444, or just under 39 deaths per million. If we only consider the unintentional (accidental) shooting deaths, 1900, the number falls to a startlingly low 4.75 per million.
When we consider that guns are designed to be lethal, and cars are designed theoretically to be safe, the contrast becomes even more stark, and any way you look at it, there’s a valid argument to say government needs to focus far more on motor vehicle safety training and testing for permits before even considering the same for firearms.
*Don’t get me started on the anti-gun biased name of the website; calling every gun-involved incident “gun violence” is like calling every fender bender road rage.
Before the virus stuff came around last year everyone and their brother, friends, relatives, neighbors and everyone else you want to add to the equation were NOT going out in mass numbers to purchase guns. This last year has been an entirely different story. I participate in quite a few gun shows and see lines waiting to get in that wrap around the building…didn’t see this before covid… Just about everyone with tables there will mention the huge number of sales to first time gun owners. Should a 1st time gun owner be exempt from safety training and just go straight to concealed carry.
Have you ever seen anyone with a gun that made you not safe around them because they obviously didn’t know what they were doing.
Yes, and some of them were long time owners. As I stated, do the research. Your comments on your fear of the “future” is unfounded as there is data that proves your fear is unfounded. There are at least 20 states that now have some form of “Constitutional Carry”. The same argument you are making was made about those states. If there were any data that proved your fears valid, the anti-rights media, politicians and Bloomberg’s anti-rights groups would have filled the Internet and the news with it.
In Virginia many years ago they passed a law allowing CC in restaurants. The antis ranted and raved about how the streets were going to become rivers of blood - it never happened. Same with your fear, it will not happen.
I choose to not let other peoples opinions keep me from being as safe, cautious and concerned as possible. Someone can have all the statistics the ever want to research…but these days it is a different world we all live in…even with all the statistics of the past.
Yes. Shot by one, damn close a second time. However, it is my opinion that people should seek training on their own rather than be required. Someone that volunteers to learn will retain more than someone who takes a class because they have to. Granted, this is based on my faith in humanity, which seems to be fading by the day…
I never stated you should not be safe nor cautious. What I did state is that your fears are unfounded. Education alleviates fears. Your belief that “all these untrained people” will begin to carry and negligently discharge firearms into crowds of people, or whatever your fear is, is not confirmed by real-world data that proves the opposite.
Negligent discharges causing deaths have decreased dramatically since the CDC has been tracking them. Not only is that the percentage, but the total number. This includes the immense population growth over the past 50+ years and the growth in the number of people that own firearms.
Your “fear” is a very old and worn trope promoted by the anti-RKBA groups, trotted out every time firearm laws become more liberalized. I provided one real-world example in Virginia. You can also review the stats from other states that have liberalized their firearm laws, and from the state that has always had liberal firearm laws, Vermont - the safest state in the nation, with less than one murder per 100,000 people.
I never stated you should not be safe nor cautious. What I did say is that your fears are unfounded. Education alleviates fears. Your belief that “all these untrained people” will begin to carry and negligently discharge firearms into crowds of people.
You are good at twisting peoples words around. I never said " **“all these untrained people” will begin to carry and negligently discharge firearms into crowds of people."**your Statistics from the past are just that…statistics from the past.
Yes, I don’t have any future data - no such animal. However, the data that we do have correlates to the “future” that you are in fear of. I also stated "all these untrained people […] or whatever your fear is, is not confirmed by real-world data. And you claim I twisted your words? This is what you wrote. Tell me how I misinterpreted your words.
So these people that are first-time firearm owners, who in your words were huge numbers, are not the untrained people you fear? If they are not negligently discharging their firearms, what is it exactly that you are in fear of from these people new to firearm ownership? When you first learned firearm safety and how to shoot, you were not new to firearms? Every person not new to firearms was new to firearms at some point in their lives, that is at least 100 million per generation - that’s a lot of new shooters, the ones that are currently first-time buyers are far less than that, by at least one order of magnitude.
I did not. However, you still did not answer what your fears are about the “huge number of sales to first time gun owners.” Instead you claimed I misquoted you. As you can see, I did not quote you in my first post, but I did here and in my last post. Also, again, in my first post, I did state “or whatever your fear is”, thereby not stating that it is “untrained people” that you fear. That still leads to the question of who it is that you do fear, since you seem to now claim that it is not “untrained people” that you fear.
Again you are manipulating words and comments. You have continually used the phrase of what I fear… and never have I said that I fear anything… I have said that I predict…you seem to be the one with fears embedded into your comments.
Okay, so if you do not fear untrained people, what, exactly, is your issue? The stats do not show that your “prediction” is valid, as negligent discharges have dropped dramatically since the CDC has been tracking that, for several or more decades. That number is not only the percentage, but the total number, and considering the population growth in the 50+ years the CDC has tracked it, and the growth in the number of firearm owners, your “prediction” is unfounded.
CDC? How long has careless firearm discharges been tracked by the Center for Disease Control? Wasn’t aware it was a disease but more of untrained carelessness. You rely too much on statistics from the past and not the reality of the present.
I do not fear untrained people but I am cautious of my every action that I am in control of…and that still does not change the fact that ALL new gun owners need training and practice…as much as any of us who continually keep our skills refined.
How long has the CDC recorded data on negligent discharges? Look it up, the data is there. Are you needing to be spoon-fed all your information? What sources do you trust? Obviously you do not trust me, so what sources do you trust? I go to government sources for data. You can distrust them, but what source is “trustworthy”?
You keep avoiding answering my questions. That is typical of those that are anti-RKBA, yet you claim to be a firearm owner, also typical of those that post non-sense about firearms, which you have. You keep claiming the “future” will be different than the past. You have no basis for that contention, and the past proves your “prediction” to be 100% false. You want a dialog or discussion, provide data to discuss. You keep claiming my posts that provide data are opinion. How is data opinion?
Of course everyone, even non-firearm owners, need firearm safety training. Again, if you are not afraid of “untrained firearm owners”, what is your issue? The CDC data proves that the issue of negligent discharges causing harm is extremely rare, far more rare than most other causes of death. So what is your issue? Can you answer a question or will you continue to deflect as other anti-RKBA advocates do?
Yes. Many times. One of the first times I was at a public range at a gun store in northern VA, 1978. It was a crowded Sunday afternoon. Every station was occupied, this guy walks around behind everyone wearing a western rig and a single action. He walks up between 2 tables at the path leading down range, looks left, right, then down range, does a fast draw and drills 6 rounds into the ground about 6 feet in front of him by fanning the hammer. He twirls his pistol, holsters it, and walks back behind the tables looking really proud. We left and only went back very early in the morning before others showed up. I have hated public ranges ever since.
Lots of differing opinions herein. I’m one for more education and training. If it’s to occur, there’s always a starting point I guess.
Not sure where we’re headed. Initially I thought the country was headed towards it, but I guessed wrong when over the last few months, some states voted for more access to firearms. Guess it could be a state by state difference, or new laws against or pro education & training can still occur within same states. I should be proactive. I’m more pro education & training but have concerns on affordability.
One of my interests is reducing businesses being able to post “Prohibited” signs. I’d like to see more freedoms for our 2A community there.
You keep talking about statistics and research and basing all of your comments on the past. I have lived through the past when there was hardly any crime and the streets were safe. You go to the government for your statistics. New gun owners are compromised of many people that just do not feel safe in today’s world where crime is much more prevalent and people get robbed, shot or killed just because some scumbag thinks they can get away with it. New gun owners want to protect themselves from these fears and dangers and that is why gun stores and gun shows are selling more guns at a record pace. I have had conversations with individuals that buy a gun with the intention of putting it in the drawer in case they need it. What? no training? No one can buy a gun, stick in in a drawer and think they are safe… Training & practice, practice and more practice. Those that do should be better off than those that do not…and those are the people I predict will have problems, regrets and consequences. Your so-called research and government statistics are not current with today’s reality. What does your outdated research tell you about the current world we now live in?
I keep saying that every new gun owner, as well as those who have owned firearms for a while need to train and practice safety on an ongoing basis. I know I do and have been doing so for 50+ years.
Sure they can. Are they right? Probably not. But, what does your research and stats tell us about untrained citizens with guns? Do you think there should be government mandated gun ownership safety classes? What does your research show? I am sure since you don’t like the outdated stats that you have current and more accurate research and stats. Bust them out!
Gregory80