Well said Sheriff Blackman
We called that oppressive and changed our laws to actually be Constitutional Carry, with the exception that the government is still involved in firearm sales.
I carry with a CCW permit, and the permitting process already doesn’t have enough training in my opinion. I think it’s highly irresponsible to let people carry without a permit. I’m afraid that brandishing charges in Florida will increase, as well as gun violence in general. I think if you ask most officers/deputies, this is a bad idea, and makes law enforcement only harder.
Hello and welcome @TwelveBravo
I have to agree with you, my last renewal class might as well had a drive-thru lane with a kids playground.
To the husband/wife running that joint only saw money making opportunities, they could care less about state laws or dos/don’t’s. I felt bad for the USCCA rep that was there.
Unfortunately, you are going to have a lot of people do the trial-by-fire method of training where they will feel being cutoff in traffic is a good reason to brandish, etc because their feelings were hurt.
What I expect, I know, I’m asking a lot, learn the laws in your state, federal, city. Be a ‘responsible’ gun owner.
You hit the nail on the head there Karacal, “Responsible” is the key word here. I’m also afraid of road-ragers, and people that don’t have the cool composure that it takes to carry a firearm. Carrying is not meant for everyone, or even most people. I think it takes a certain type of person to carry responsibly, and like you said, “knowing the laws” is important. I don’t have faith that most people will take the time/effort to learn the laws and or train enough to carry responsibly.
I also live in Florida and a resturant I have gone to for years had a “No Firearms or Weapons” placard at the entrance yesterday. I wasn’t in the mood to discuss it with them, but I wonder how many businesses are reacting to HB543 this way.
Thanks for posting this @William377, I had not realized open carry was legal traveling to or from test/target shooting. The only time I open carry (here in Florida) is when I get hot and take my shirt off fishing on my boat. That will probably remain the only time for me.
Welcome @TwelveBravo and I agree with you and @Karacal. By the way , you will find that Karacal is one of the common sense voices of reason on this forum. I am a retired state LEO and was a Master Firearms instructor for the last 17 years of my 26 years. I state that to explain my position on permitless carry. I am not a supporter of permitless carry due to the effect of human nature especially on adults these days. If given and opportunity to cut a corner, take the easy path, or due to simple laziness, people for the most part will do so. What you and Karacal said about being a “responsible” gun owner says it all. When people learn my background they almost always ask “what kind of gun should I carry”? I tell them the question is "what type of gun are you willing to devote the time and expense to become proficient and “FORMALLY” trained with. I add by stating that I do not care what your state laws are, be responsible to yourself , your family and your community and become properly trained. If a person is not willing to do that, then there isn’t a firearm made that is “right” for you.
Also let me close by saying in my mind there is a difference between permitless carry and Constitutional carry. To excercise Constitutional Carry rights, realize that all of our rights come with personal responsibility. And Thanks to @William377 for posting that chart.
I’m a Florida resident. I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. I consider myself a very pro 2A person, so I hate any laws that actually restrict our rights. For that reason alone I’m happy to see constitutional carry. There are so many restrictions already tjat any law that moves thr needle in the direction of freedom is good in my mind.
Having said that, I never minded the minor task of a little training to get the CCW. I agree that people shouldn’t have to pay a fee to exercise a right, and the training and permit amount to a couple hundred bucks. Still, the training I had was really pretty good, in that he did a great job of covering all the relevant laws. I went deeper and read Jon Gutmacher’s book a couple times (if you live in FL you should have it). Anyway, the laws are pretty complex, and the penalty is stiff for breaking them, so people should get some training.
Having seen a few “Florida Men” in person and in news reports over the years, I believe the psycho and thug community never needed a law to prompt them to carry. I dont believe this law will add or remove anything from safety risks. It does mitigate the risk of Secy of Ag revoking CWL for political reasons.
Speaking of firearms training. It seems to me, that IF an inexperienced individual decides to carry a firearm For Self Defense they would/should naturally want to know both sides, how to use and maintain the firearm and what the laws are in regards to carry and use of a firearm in self defense. Just the lack of curiosity raises a flag in my mind. They could spend an hour of their porn time reading state codes (In Utah it’s really easy to find). Instead of an hour at the bar and grill they could be talking to an instructor at a range about gun safety, target acquisition and firearm maintenance. All of the said, I am still not real keen with government intervention. The 2nd Amendment says what it says, it’s doesn’t say take a class and get a license from the government.
Welcome to the community @TwelveBravo
While I completely agree with you that people who carry firearms should get adequate training, I haven’t seen any of the Constitutional Carry States suddenly turn into the Wild West.
Vermont has had Constitutional Carry for over 100 years and I’ve never seen it referenced as a hot bed for gun violence.
I believe we will be seeing increases in violence everywhere due to socio economic stresses and the divisions and anger being intentionally generated by media, politicians and special interest groups. And I’m sure these Constitutional Carry laws will be blamed. But those pointing the fingers will be ignoring that the violence is increasing as much if not more in the States with draconian anti self defense laws.
I would much prefer everyone who owns a fire arm for self defense purposes to be well trained. With much better training than the pathetic amount most States require to get a license. But I think we could do that by funding and promoting voluntary options. Take the billions being waisted on the ATF and put it towards safety and self defense training programs.
I personally would prefer something along the lines of Constitutional carry for all adults with free or at least affordable classes available to everyone. Starting with required firearm safety training in all publicly funded schools. Then I would want an enhanced license option for those who meet much higher training requirements. That license would allow people to carry in more restricted areas (like POs, etc.) and receive National Reciprocity in any 2A violating States. I think such a license would encourage a lot of people to seek high quality training.
I lived in Kansas when it enacted permitless carry. My boss at the time, Governor Brownback, said that people should not have to ask permission from a government official to exercise a Constitutionally guaranteed right.
The CCW classes I’ve taken – Colorado, Nevada, Kansas – have uniformly been called “training.” That’s a cruel joke, because none of them involved more than a couple hours of some self-proclaimed “expert” droning in front of a classroom and students firing less than a box of ammo at paper targets on a range. I don’t think it was possible to flunk any of those classes. They were just a means of removing $$ from students and passing the $$ to the state and the instructors.
That’s what the “big brains” in government consider “training” necessary to exercise one’s Constitutionally guaranteed rights. I don’t see that changing any time soon.
@Mark697, Wow, a couple of hours training you say. A multitude of years ago when I went for my CCW in Pa. It only took 30 minutes and 5 rounds down range at 10 feet. If you put all 5 rounds on the paper you passed.
That’s a lot more demanding than the 2 rounds from a 22LR pistol I had to put on paper at 9 feet to meet the requirements for my FL CWL
Edit: Sadly, there were a couple of folks in my class that barely passed the live fire criteria
@WDB444 Very well said. Thank you for your service! I really like your point about our rights coming with responsibility. People don’t often connect the two.
Every time firearm laws become more liberal, the naysayers come out of the woodwork claiming the streets will become rivers of blood. To date, that has not happened. We have 27 “Constitutional Carry” states now, and one has always been so, and no rivers of blood.
Yes, people should learn firearm safety, laws pertaining to firearms and how to shoot. I suspect that all of us here believe that. The difference is some of us believe in our inalienable rights, and others believe in government control. Name one “gun control” law that has worked.
All the crimes you fear will occur with more liberalized laws are already crimes. Anyone predisposed to commit those crimes will do so, with our without a piece of paper showing he/she had the proper government training.
@Shamrock I didn’t know Vermont had it for over 100 years. I guess what scares me about Florida, is that we will have a ton of new gun owners carrying concealed now because it’s the new thing to do. And, I think a lot of these people will be very lazy when it comes to training, and learning the laws. I did some research after reading your comment, and it does seem that constitutional carry does not increase gun violence. Some of the other scientific data was inconclusive, but I couldn’t find anything that said that it led to increased gun violence. I really like your idea of constitutional carry for all adults with more stringent training requirements. And you’re right, the billions of dollars we spend “fighting” gun violence, could be spent on education. Hey! Free training ammo! Very intelligent comment. Thank you for sharing.
An armed and concealed society is a more polite society.