Liberal Democrat

There are many more middle of the road people here than extremes on either side. Contrary to what many believe, you can be pro 2A and still vote democrat - we vote on the subjects that are most important to us. For a lot of us here that is our 2A rights, but for others, it is something else. And that diversity is important.

As far as number of rounds - I can shoot as many rounds swapping out magazines on my handgun as I can with a 30 round magazine on my AR.

It comes down to training - and even more importantly - it comes down to intent.

I think we’re failing the community at large by not addressing the issue that causes the mass shootings (Warren mentioned Sandy Hook). Mental illness has gotten so stigmatized and the lack of affordable assistance to deal with mental illness has done a huge disservice to the entire country.

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Lol. Roger that brother warrior.

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I think I know where you’re coming from, we’re all disgusted by actions of the mentally challenged in all those horrific situations.

That has nothing to do with my rights as an American citizen. If you really want to solve the problems, it’s mental health, parenting (which is a thing of the past), education (not indoctrination), drugs, and dismembering gangs. Not CHOP, CHAZ zones or burning down cities or defunding law enforcement. Seattle sounds like a comfortable place to live right now. Right now the only one with the brass balls to break down the gangs is President Trump!

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So does this mean that no one has the right to own any weapon used in war? If not how do we know what if the 1800’s musket handed down thru the family was used in the civil war.

“God made all men Sam colt made them equal”
So should colt be put out of business since many of his weapons were designed to kill people

Also the AR 15 and for that matter ALL firearms are designed to do damage and/or kill

How many people were killed before rifling started to be used and were there people then who took it upon themselves to label any rifle as a military weapon and as such not suitable for common people to own

I grudgingly accept the restrictions on class 3 weapons but there comes a time when the government should mind it’s own business and leave the honest law abiding citizen alone

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The AR-15 is not a weapon of war. You know what is? Mossberg and Remington pump shotguns. Should those be available to civilians? I can go order the exact Mossberg that is issued to a soldier, and it’s 100% legal. Also, in close quarters, it is significantly more devastating than an AR type rifle.

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Absolute correct the Mossberg will do more damage.

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Due process is not about your RKBA, it strictly involves enforcement of laws, wherein legal procedures must be followed, “nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law”. However, where laws are unconstitutional, they are void, Marbury v. Madison.

Fifth Amendment:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Fourteenth Amendment:
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

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Maybe I missed it, if it was stated, but I’m interested in hearing from Warren what type(s) of firearms he personally owns.

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I do believe we are both right…

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution each contain a due process clause . Due process deals with the administration of justice and thus the due process clause acts as a safeguard from arbitrary denial of life, liberty, or property by the government outside the sanction of law.[1] The Supreme Court of the United States interprets the clauses broadly, concluding that these clauses provide three protections: procedural due process (in civil and criminal proceedings); substantive due process, a prohibition against vague laws; and as the vehicle for the incorporation of the Bill of Rights.

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I used to be left of center many years ago but research and personal experiences (anecdotal evidence) changed my way of thinking. Traveling to other countries can be a good education. Also living abroad in a quasi-socialist country for 14 years definitely did that. Returning to the USA from a place where you hardly had to worry about crime was shocking, but so was the precious freedom we have that many people take for granted.

“…limiting how many rounds a clip can hold.”
A clip like the kind that M1 Garand’s use is already pretty limited. I think you mean magazines. I will fight against any regulations and laws that try to enforce this. This is one of the reasons I will not own a neutered or Frankenstein AR where I live. If you’ve ever experienced having to defend yourself from more than one ex-con or criminal, you might go through a paradigm shift. I’m sure LE know the problem all too well with limited magazine capacity, especially when faced with more than one criminal during a gun fight. In one example, a lone criminal continued a gun fight after being shot 14 times. He wasn’t on drugs, it was pure adrenaline and hatred that had him going. Now imagine that happening in your own home where you’re caught off guard, and where the criminals all have guns with standard capacity magazines. Some may even have 40-round magazines.

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A side point -Hasn’t over half of The House of Representative disqualified themselves for giving aid and comfort to insurrectionists? Was watching the AG Barr testimony yesterday (when he was allowed to speak) and none of a certain ilk spoke against the anarchist destroying our cities. Just sayin if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

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So where in that does it state that it can limit your RKBA? We have inalienable rights - meaning they cannot be taken from us, as Jefferson wrote, even if we did not have a 2A, we would still have the RKBA.

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“Assault rifles”

You can’t remove what doesn’t exist.

“10-day Wait”

Carol Bowne, NJ. Murdered by a man armed with an “assault knife” while Carol was waiting for her gun permit.

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I understand the emotional appeal of your message in this spot. But could you please explain what new law you could pass that would take firearms out of the hands of criminals rather than adding more hoops for the law abiding citizen to jump through.

What law will work that the pre-existing 20,000+ gun laws on removing guns from criminals?

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The only law that can eliminate “gun violence” is a total ban, outright confiscation.
(Again, how do you eliminate something that does NOT exist?)

But, good luck making lawbreakers obey such a law.
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.
Exhibit A:

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2A was NEVER intended to protect my hunting rights. Never.

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What is a “Kleenex”? It started out as a very specific item, but over time it came to mean any old piece of tissue paper. I think the same thing has happened with the term “AR-15” (right or wrong)? Many of us who know the history do not feel obligated to use precise language at all times. Same goes for “clip” vs. “magazine”. How do these linguistic “gotcha” posts advance our collective understanding of what is going on in the world? The OP probably knows the meaning of all these words and is just exercising his 1A rights. There are plenty of substantive issues to debate - let’s not get lost in the linguistic weeds and miss the forest while we’re looking at the trees.

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The First Amendment only applies to government suppression of speech. This forum does not qualify.

It doesnt limit it. It protects it (purpose #3). That was my point.

Agreed. While I don’t agree with almost anything Mr Warren says, doesn’t mean I will suppress his speech, and just because someone says clip vs magazine doesn’t make what they have to say less important. I mean, we could all go from thread to thread and correct each other, but what would we achieve? All you’d end up with is grammar, spelling, and terminology lessons, which IMO aren’t as important as the other knowledge we gain from sharing. Democrat opinions matter to… sometimes… :joy:

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