Gun rhetoric has become so mean spirited in today’s polarized political environment and as a gun owner who believes in strong gun laws to prevent the “bad” guys from being able to purchase weapons without full background checks or waiting periods makes me a minority member of this organization.I am also in favor of waiting periods for hand guns for those who do not possess concealed weapons permits. Why, anger management. Now to really upset my fellow members of the USCCA Community: I am one of those bleeding heart liberals that believe in removing assault rifles from the market and limiting how many rounds a clip can hold.
I’ve read many of the postings on the site and I realize mine may be the only one with this “far-left view”, but, I would like everyone to keep in mind that I didn’t say to get rid of weapons including handguns. My only problem with handguns is that the states issuing these concealed weapon permits training programs are a complete joke. A few hours in the classroom and firing six shots is not enough training to make you competent to carry a loaded weapon. Training should include classroom time but all states need to add additional live-fire training with stress situations built-in.
As a retired military member with hours of training on numerous weapons, I want everyone that carries a weapon to be trained properly. I believe that all of us that are members of USCCA feel the same on this subject.
My reason for posting this was to let you know that there are some Liberal Democrats that believe in the second amendment. I just wanted to chime in with my opinion and now I’ll sit back and take my butt whippin like a man.
W. Merkle USN Ret
@Warren11 Welcome to the community. Do you believe we have the capability to enforce the current laws we have on the books? What is your perspective on the disparity of laws across the country? I would also like to hear your perspective on “…shall not be infringed”. Are you of the mind that “If we can save just one life…?” Curious minds want to know why scary AR-15s should be removed from the general law-abiding populace. Do criminals obey laws? Do liberals even believe in arresting and prosecuting the 10% of criminals that cause 80% of the crimes. Do you acknowledge the historical disarmament of citizens leads to genocide? Looking forward to this discourse.
Thank you for your service, @Warren11!
Glad to have you in the Community, @Warren11! There is so much hate being spewed in the world today, we do our best to keep all conversation here respectful.
Now, I’m not going to say everyone is going to agree with you. You will definitely get asked a ton of questions and have some heated discussions, but those discussions will stay respectful. Some may toe the line, but everyone here is passionate and believes that we can learn from everyone else when discussion stays respectful. @Jeff-A1 has already started asking questions so that he can better understand your viewpoint.
I would agree with you that anyone who carries a firearm needs training, however, mandating training doesn’t mean people will learn (I had to take HS geometry and chemistry, but I don’t remember much if any of either of the mandated subjects). I know people who have never had formal training but spend countless hours learning and training on their own.
Unfortunately, bad guys will always get guns, no matter how many laws are in place.
I will be following this discussion closely! Glad to have you here - life would be really dull if we all believed the same thing.
I am curious, sister. I agree their is to much hate in our country right now. “Divided house can not stand…” There is also a suppression of intelligent discourse in our society right now. MSM is a one-way filter of propaganda. Hope we all survive the current “experiment”.
Welcome to the community and to the USCCA.
I will start off by saying that I disagree with just about everything you said. But before going into all that, may I ask one question?
What do you think the intent, purpose, and spirit of the 2nd Amendment is as was written by our founders?
Hey @Dawn , Can USCCA send him a complimentary book Countering the Mass Shooter Threat? All the statistical data to counter all his arguments are in black and white in that book.
@Warren11 No, there’s no butt whippin man. It’s all good and that’s what we do here is “discuss” folks opinions in a cordial and respectful manner. I am an instructor and would LOVE everyone to take a course or two. You can learn so much and be so much safer. But per the 2a, it doesn’t say anything about any of the restrictions you mention. So technically there should be no “infringements”.
The book I mentioned to have Dawn maybe send you will have an answer to virtually everything you mention above. A huge amount of info on magazine capacity is my favorite. If she can’t get you a book, I’ll provide your course free of charge and send you one of my student books.
Cheers and welcome to the community man.
@Warren11 Welcome to the forums. Don’t agree with almost everything you posted, but, always nice to hear a differing opinion.
Out of curiosity, why not get the criminals to obey the existing laws instead of passing more laws and restrictions against the law abiding citizen’s 2A rights?
First, welcome to the family! While I respect your opinion, I completely disagree. No whoopins here…
People set on doing bad things will do them regardless of the law. Gang bangers may not buy guns personally, but they still get them. IMO more stringent “gun laws” only effect law abiding citizens.
Also, waiting times suck… the time some in the community have to wait is far past excessive. As far as limiting magazine capacity, I don’t agree because, freedom.
Welcome to the family brother and god bless you and your family.
Warren, no doubt your heart is in the right place. We all would love to end violence. Whenever a friend makes the similar statement you have written I first have a simple question. Exactly what law would/could you write that the criminal and criminally insane would abide by? Please, before you answer consider that we have a very lawless and corrupt country on our long southern border. All the drug laws and enforcement efforts have done nothing to really stem the flow of these drugs into the black market. Violent gangs have spread throughout our country, even making their way into small rural communities. How will your law put firearms out of their reach. Thanks and welcome to the community.
Welcome! No “whipping” going on here. I welcome other points of view, we may not agree, yet I have not seen anyone canceled here. So welcome! Look forward to your opinions! Thanks for making us a richer more dynamic organization!
I hope you’re not feeling ganged up on, @Warren11.
We’re all genuinely curious about your opinions and would love to find out more!
Thanks for the welcome and the response.
Yes, I believe that we have, or should have the ability to enforce the current laws that are on the books. I also want to point out that the second amendment states: "that a well regulated militia”. It seems to me that too many people fail to read that portion of the amendment. This portion allows for laws to be passed to regulate the type of weapons that may be made available to the general public. I’m guessing that you and I agree that the general public should not be allowed to purchase a RPG?
Yes, I want to prosecute criminals. People seem to find guns by illegal means or at gun shows. As a gun owner, I believe that I am very responsible and I preach responsibility to all people who wish to acquire them. I’m not anti-gun, just for regulating them a little more strictly. I didn’t see you had a problem with my requirement of better training for concealed weapon permits. May I assume you agree better training is necessary?
Warren Merkle USN Ret
“…As a retired military member with hours of training on numerous weapons,”
Cool. What year did you retire, and what was your Rate?
Thank you Warren. As you point out militia, how do you define militia? The definition of militia today is not the same as it was back when the constitution and the bill of rights was written. The militia back when our founding documents were written meant basically all able-bodied people. The second amendment’s purpose is to serve as a check on government power and infringement and to provide recourse against a tyrannical government. The framers wanted the people to have the means to resist the government. I would recommend reading James Madison and Thomas Jefferson as a start to understand the true meaning of the second amendment.
While I agree that a person that wishes to carry have training (as I have said in other threads). I don’t think we should have to pay for the use of our second amendment rights. Here in Texas, I paid 65 for the class, 40 to the state with my application, and 15 ish for fingerprints, and I know some in other states pay more. Want to make the process free and say we should take extra training? I’m ok with that. I can easily sacrifice a weekend, but to say “here’s more hoops to jump through, here’s the cost, and the outrageous wait time” is not acceptable.
@Warren11 Thank you for your response.
I will be a bit irreverent here by parroting a current question “How are we doing on the war on drugs?” I spent a few years on the border engaged in that war. Hasn’t worked out so well. Plenty of resolve in the beginning under Reagan but folks still want to pour vile poison into their bodies today.
I’m of the “Individual Rights” persuasion. Was the Bill of Rights created for the state or the individual? You may have some traction on the “A Well regulate militia…” if you can articulate the following:
a) Who was the militia at the time of the writing?
b) Did the Bill of Rights address both state and individual rights?
c) Does “regulation” in 1700’s parlance mean prepared or governed?
I’m not getting that vibe from your elected officials. Between sanctuary cities, catch and release, early parole of perpetrators of violence and near automatic rights restoration as my governor did (right before the elections)…not getting that at all. Their efforts point to disarming citizens like me. Not a single new gun law legislated by Virginia this year will decrease violent crime but they do punish folks like me. Now many Democrats want to defund the police…
Welcome and I’ll try not to pile on (too much) You probably feel a little like you opened Pandora’s box.
I think we already have mandatory background checks conducted at the federal level dont we (brady bill)? Are you proposing a change?
Some places already have a mandatory wait, and some don’t. Does that data support that a waiting period eliminates, or even reduces, crime/shootings from heat of the moment purchases (or even crimes involving firearms in general)?
Hello to all and thank you for the “warm” welcome!
I knew I was going to get a butt whipping’s, but I thought it might come over a two day period of time. Please note, I am not anti gun.
Yes, I know criminals should be punished and they always seem to find a way to get a gun. They are the reason we outlawed fully automatic weapons.
I live in Florida. Believe it or not, the class to get your concealed permit is about three hours long and you shoot a weapon, not yours, six times. That’s it! Now your carrying! I would assume that most of you that belong to this community have had more training than that. I would also assume that if your spouse or child wanted to learn to shoot, you would require a lot more training than that? (That was my point)
Militia - In 1790 we did not have a standing Army. Each state had its own Militia. In a time of National Emergency: ie: Whiskey Rebellion, the militia was called up. The men brought their own flintlocks and went to war as it was. Jeff That is my definition of a militia at the time the Constitution was written. Our Founding Fathers could not foresee M4A1 carbines not to mention all the other modern weapons we have today. They did not foresee a standing Army and purposely did not create one out of fear. My point here is that I believe that the government has the right to regulate the types of weapons and place restrictions on them. That is why convicted felons cannot own them legally, or why I cannot buy an RPG legally.
I wrote on the community site because I thought we needed someone with a different viewpoint on some of the topics discussed. Sometimes the “Left” think all gun owners are all crazy. I have to argue that most of us are not. Unfortunately, it has been my experience that there are a few crazy gun people out there preparing for the zombie apocalypse or just untrained gun-happy. Like the local bartender that shot herself in the foot while cleaning her gun. (This is one of my points on training)
Thank you for welcoming me with open arms and kind thoughts!
Your Respectful Liberal Democrat,
And sometimes gun owners think all on the “Left” are crazy. And that’s why we all (here are least) value the open conversation!
PLEASE continue commenting and giving a different than the “mainstream gun owner” view!