Welcome to the family brother @Charles249 and you are in the right place at the right time.
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LOL, that wasn’t rude, not by any means. But let me make sure I understand you. You’re saying that once you buy a gun, you own it forever? Nothing at all can prove to the law that you sold it? Sorry, I don’t believe you are correct. Are you also saying that if I purchase a used gun from a licensed dealer that it is not recorded and registered to me? That one seems a bit hard to swallow also.
If what you are saying is correct, then all a criminal needs to do is buy used guns and he/she could never be caught and charged with a gun crime, as any used gun said criminal bought that was found at the scene would get the original purchaser a jail term, but a law-abiding citizen that buys a used gun would be charged with stealing it if it were found on his/her person. No, I think there might be a hole or two in your theory.
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Read through what I wrote more carefully. Your “receipt” is only that. When a firearm is traced, the ATF contacts the manufacturer. The manufacturer notifies them as to which dealer they sold the firearm. The ATF goes to that FFL and finds your Form 4473. They then investigate you. If they cannot determine that you are not the criminal, they will contact you. Your piece of paper is essentially meaningless until they can verify that you are not the criminal they are seeking.
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But you’re still not explaining transfer of ownership. So, if I walk into a gun dealer, and buy a used handgun, then what? No Form 4473? I just drop the cash and walk out with a gun that cannot be traced to me? If that is the case, why the hell would anyone want a new gun? Just get a used one, and no one knows you own it.
Re-read my post. The ATF trace starts with the manufacturer. It then goes to where the firearm was sold. It finds the Form 4473. It identifies you. They investigate you. If they decide they need to contact you, you will be contacted. At that point you get a lawyer, provide the “receipt” and they investigate further. If they decide you are no longer a suspect, they further their search.
This is the very reason there should be no record of what you purchased. The firearm is not the crime, the criminal act is. There is no reason for any government agency to know what you obtained nor possess. Tracing firearms does not solve crimes.
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Honestly, it seems that you’re dancing all around my question, and just not answering it. I refuse to believe that purchasing a used gun from a licensed dealer does not show the new ownership in a similar way that purchasing a new gun does.
So I’m just going to bail here, since for whatever reason you can’t or won’t answer my question.
Peace out.
Yes, it is clear that you do not believe it. Research it. Yes, your purchasing a firearm from a FFL will show your ownership of that firearm. As there is no central database of firearm ownership, the ATF does not know which FFL sold the firearm, and that is where the Form 4473 is that shows who purchased the firearm. So the only way they can begin a trace on the firearm is by contacting the manufacturer. The manufacturer has the record to which FFL they sold the firearm. Therefore, the ATF will go to that FFL as that is the only FFL they are aware of that has the Form 4473 for that firearm. If that Form 4473 has your name on it, they will investigate you. I did not state, nor imply, that you would be arrested and charged with a crime, only that your name is associated with that firearm, so you will be investigated.
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@Richard306 I think what @Dave17 is trying to say… 
When a firearm is found at the crime scene (and the criminal didn’t file off the serial) they contact ATF who does the search as Dave notes (Manufacturer > Distributor > FFL > 4473 > YOU).
That doesn’t mean you are charged with a crime. That just means you really need to know where that firearm went.
If all you can say is “I sold it to some guy on the corner a few years back, no i didn’t ask his name, no i don’t remember which corner, and no i don’t remember when”… then be prepared because you are either now suspect #1 or the guy who directly sold the firearm to suspect #1. Neither of those options will be pleasant for you.
However, if you have some kind of record of the transaction you can then point the ATF in their direction. ATF will then go ask them what they did with the firearm. At that point it’s no longer your problem.
Is there a possibility this can get messy? Sure. The other person may deny or forget and say they didn’t get it from you. This is where good records come in handy.
Best way to keep yourself safe in these transactions…
Easiest way is sell it via consignment at an LGS. Yes, they take a cut of the sale (I hear anywhere from 10-30% is common), but they handle background checks and everyone gets a receipt
If you sell on your own, write up or print a bill-of-sale and have both parties sign it and get a copy. There are “official” looking docs you can find online, but really all you need is one or two sentences saying who bought what and when. Assuming your state does not have a requirement for background checks on private sales this is all you need. The gubment need never know about the sale except in the rare circumstance that it is eventually used in a crime and then you have the tools needed to point them in the right direction. This keeps BOTH the buyer and seller protected.
Extra points here for also swapping a copy of a photoID although there are privacy concerns there.
And even if your state doesn’t require a background check, a check can be performed pretty easily in most places for a small fee. And again, that gives an extra bit of security for everyone.
It goes without saying, don’t sell to people you aren’t 100% sure are not a felon or soon to become one.
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Has anyone checked out the S&W Shield bug out bundle? My buddy got one in his shop yesterday.
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Local gun dealer had one. For 2 hours. Then it sold.
What type of distance can you get with that new rifle? Looks great!
Seems like a good deal. If I already had shield mags, I’d be more inclined to put the money into a 2.0, but I like the 1.0. Only thing I don’t like about the 1.0 is the grip texture (which can be fixed). The 2.0s also have a much better trigger, but the 1.0 trigger is fine. Definitely not a bad deal!
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I don’t know yet. Today was its first outing. For now, I’m more worried about setting it up. The 4H kids shoot at 25 and 50 feet for state. I wanted a rifle to set up for maximum accuracy, while staying within the CMP Sporter rules, all while keeping it cost effective. When I’m done, I’ll have a total of right at 550 dollars in it. That way, any of the kids could afford a great rifle. If I went full budget build, I could do it for less. The rifle was 248 out the door. Yes, I’m going with a Vortex scope, but, a Simmons Protarget Rimfire, could be a budget option for some folks. My ultimate goal with the 4H kids, is to show the parents a lifetime of enjoyment can be had for much less than the traditional sports like baseball, football, basketball, etc.
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Yes I did @Bugleboy and saw a YouTube video on it. It seems good. You get a total is 5 mags and a first aid kit inside that nice looking bug out bag.
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Up top is my new Christensen Arms Mesa in. 300 Win Mag. Great gun
On the bottom below my 365XL is my new P320 XCarry. I bought it because the 365 does not fit my hands.
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What scope is that on there?
And what MOA does the pineapple shoot?
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Good choice brother! I have the original M&P Sport (no dust cover or forward assist) and I love it. Its my fist AR as well (and only so far). I have modified it a bit over that last 5 or so years that I have it had it (see picture in thread above). Its been a solid rifle, very accurate, good barrel with 1:9 twist. I have only good things to say about it. Several thousand rounds through it with an occasional jam, but I truly believe that has more to do with my cleaning than anything else. Just keep it clean and oiled and you shouldn’t have any issues. I would trust my life with it.
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