You get a full day on ammo? It’s about 10 minutes here and that’s just because they’re limiting what a person can buy at a time (maybe slightly exaggerated, but not by much)
At 60…I’m not tech savvy enough to post pics. Latest firearm purchase was Sig Legion X5. I did order 2 4.25 inch MP performance slide kits from optics planet today. One 9mm, one 40 cal. to replace my 5 inch slides. Shoulder pain makes drawing a challenge from 4 o:clock.
Looking at appendix carry route.
Not so much new but its been awhile since some of the non-pistols and such shared a photo together.
The MS391 (still thinking of a way to mount it as a chainsaw bayonet).
Ruger PC Carbine
AR15 pistol 556
All ready to go should someone ignore the warnings and break in…
Glad you got in!
How do you legally sell a firearm? Do you report it to the seller was has your application and receipt logged in their system as it states it’s yours?
Thank you! As to your question, it has 2 different answers, and the second one will likely vary from state to state.
I traded/sold my APX directly to the licensed gun store I purchased it from originally. They issued me a bill of sale, which I store with the original receipt. <-----<< That sentence is very important!
I’ve only once sold a firearm to an individual, and that was in FL. To my knowledge, you just sell it, and that’s that. I personally wrote up two identical receipts with both our names and the gun’s serial number. We both checked them, then signed both copies. I kept one, he got the other. I never contacted anyone else about the sale.
This is the answer that might vary from state to state, as you may have noticed there was no age verification (he was 22, IIRC), no NICS, no registration for the buyer, etc. In FL, at that time, a seller didn’t need any registration of a weapon nor eligibility checks of the buyer to sell to a private individual. It’s wise to get a signed receipt and keep it safe.
I would highly recommend checking with your state’s laws before buying or selling a gun to/from an individual rather than a licensed dealer.
Hope this helps.
All ready and waiting, eh? You must have found one of those magical video game backpacks that let you change weapons instantly, and carry a full arsenal with ammo for all of them. So…where did you find that backpack? I’ve been looking for one for years now!
The original sale via the Form 4473 still shows you as the owner. If that firearm is ever found after being used in a crime, the ATF will be investigating you. A piece of paper will not prevent that as it is not with your original Form 4473. It might aid in how quickly the ATF decides you were not involved in the crime, but it will not prevent the investigation. They will have investigated you well before you are ever contacted by them.
The worst issue of the federal Form 4473, which is supposed to be only for purposes of a criminal background check, is that it is a permanent record of what firearm(s) you obtained. There is no legitimate reason for the federal government, nor anyone else, to know what firearm(s) you obtained or own.
Nice collection of hardware @Orpackrat.
Hanging on wall, beside bed, end of bed, gun cabinet with keys inserted, 2 chainsaws fueled and sitting on top cabinet.
However, in later times, I may have to design such a backpack, probably based on an external frame backpack and have my brother engineer the electronics the a smart arm to release and pass me one from my inventory.
There is a youtube out there where some guy fired it off in his house and the ceiling fell down. Another story, I worked at a mold shop where they were building these on their own time as a hobby. One guy finished his and took it out behind the building and set up a target board by propping it up with another stick from behind to hold it up. Fired it, and the initial reaction was he missed the target! Upon closer inspection the projectile passed completely through it with such velocity the board never moved. Amazing!
Did you perhaps miss the part where I sold it to a licensed gun dealer? For it to be used in a crime, with the stipulation that the proprietors of the gun store didn’t commit said crime, it would need to either be stolen, in which case that piece of paper with the gun dealer’s ID info would assuredly be useful, or it would have been sold to someone by that licensed gun dealer, and thus be registered to them.
Now the first handgun I sold, some 30 odd years ago, yeah maybe that could come back on me, but it was a Jennings, and a cheap one at that, and I really doubt there is much chance it lasted even half that long without falling apart.
Did you miss the part that the Form 4473 that has your firearm being sold to you, still shows the firearm sold to you? Being rude does not help anyone. Re-read my post.
Welcome to the family brother @Charles249 and you are in the right place at the right time.
LOL, that wasn’t rude, not by any means. But let me make sure I understand you. You’re saying that once you buy a gun, you own it forever? Nothing at all can prove to the law that you sold it? Sorry, I don’t believe you are correct. Are you also saying that if I purchase a used gun from a licensed dealer that it is not recorded and registered to me? That one seems a bit hard to swallow also.
If what you are saying is correct, then all a criminal needs to do is buy used guns and he/she could never be caught and charged with a gun crime, as any used gun said criminal bought that was found at the scene would get the original purchaser a jail term, but a law-abiding citizen that buys a used gun would be charged with stealing it if it were found on his/her person. No, I think there might be a hole or two in your theory.
Read through what I wrote more carefully. Your “receipt” is only that. When a firearm is traced, the ATF contacts the manufacturer. The manufacturer notifies them as to which dealer they sold the firearm. The ATF goes to that FFL and finds your Form 4473. They then investigate you. If they cannot determine that you are not the criminal, they will contact you. Your piece of paper is essentially meaningless until they can verify that you are not the criminal they are seeking.
But you’re still not explaining transfer of ownership. So, if I walk into a gun dealer, and buy a used handgun, then what? No Form 4473? I just drop the cash and walk out with a gun that cannot be traced to me? If that is the case, why the hell would anyone want a new gun? Just get a used one, and no one knows you own it.
Re-read my post. The ATF trace starts with the manufacturer. It then goes to where the firearm was sold. It finds the Form 4473. It identifies you. They investigate you. If they decide they need to contact you, you will be contacted. At that point you get a lawyer, provide the “receipt” and they investigate further. If they decide you are no longer a suspect, they further their search.
This is the very reason there should be no record of what you purchased. The firearm is not the crime, the criminal act is. There is no reason for any government agency to know what you obtained nor possess. Tracing firearms does not solve crimes.
Honestly, it seems that you’re dancing all around my question, and just not answering it. I refuse to believe that purchasing a used gun from a licensed dealer does not show the new ownership in a similar way that purchasing a new gun does.
So I’m just going to bail here, since for whatever reason you can’t or won’t answer my question.
Yes, it is clear that you do not believe it. Research it. Yes, your purchasing a firearm from a FFL will show your ownership of that firearm. As there is no central database of firearm ownership, the ATF does not know which FFL sold the firearm, and that is where the Form 4473 is that shows who purchased the firearm. So the only way they can begin a trace on the firearm is by contacting the manufacturer. The manufacturer has the record to which FFL they sold the firearm. Therefore, the ATF will go to that FFL as that is the only FFL they are aware of that has the Form 4473 for that firearm. If that Form 4473 has your name on it, they will investigate you. I did not state, nor imply, that you would be arrested and charged with a crime, only that your name is associated with that firearm, so you will be investigated.
When a firearm is found at the crime scene (and the criminal didn’t file off the serial) they contact ATF who does the search as Dave notes (Manufacturer > Distributor > FFL > 4473 > YOU).
That doesn’t mean you are charged with a crime. That just means you really need to know where that firearm went.
If all you can say is “I sold it to some guy on the corner a few years back, no i didn’t ask his name, no i don’t remember which corner, and no i don’t remember when”… then be prepared because you are either now suspect #1 or the guy who directly sold the firearm to suspect #1. Neither of those options will be pleasant for you.
However, if you have some kind of record of the transaction you can then point the ATF in their direction. ATF will then go ask them what they did with the firearm. At that point it’s no longer your problem.
Is there a possibility this can get messy? Sure. The other person may deny or forget and say they didn’t get it from you. This is where good records come in handy.
Best way to keep yourself safe in these transactions…
Easiest way is sell it via consignment at an LGS. Yes, they take a cut of the sale (I hear anywhere from 10-30% is common), but they handle background checks and everyone gets a receipt
If you sell on your own, write up or print a bill-of-sale and have both parties sign it and get a copy. There are “official” looking docs you can find online, but really all you need is one or two sentences saying who bought what and when. Assuming your state does not have a requirement for background checks on private sales this is all you need. The gubment need never know about the sale except in the rare circumstance that it is eventually used in a crime and then you have the tools needed to point them in the right direction. This keeps BOTH the buyer and seller protected.
Extra points here for also swapping a copy of a photoID although there are privacy concerns there.
And even if your state doesn’t require a background check, a check can be performed pretty easily in most places for a small fee. And again, that gives an extra bit of security for everyone.
It goes without saying, don’t sell to people you aren’t 100% sure are not a felon or soon to become one.