Hi, I am new to the forum and the whole concept of self defense insurance, I did my own research but couldn’t find answers to these questions. Forgive me if they are stupid question:
After seeing some video and then reading through the policy, I saw the possibility of recoupment. It seems like it legally had to be written into the policy but its not enforced. Which brings me to wonder in how many cases has (roughly speaking) Universal Fire & Casualty Insurance Company (UFCIC) attempted to recoup money from an insured that conviction/guilty plea?
Trying to wrap my head around the limits of coverage. If someone pushes you, you push them back (no weapons involved) then they try to press charges for assault and battery, is that covered? In simple terms, at what degree of escalation does the self defense insurance kick in?
Being from the martial arts world I asked that specific question. Does this policy cover hand to hand self defense. I got this light none comital answer, The policy covers self defense situations. If you get a better answer from Delta let us know.
Was the seminar at the Delta Defense campus? Not disputing it, but short of it being from an actual employee I do not know if I would count on it.
The USCCA has subcontractors who do sales on an area by area basis and I’ve heard some serious mistakes made regarding USCCA coverage at those seminars. I belong to several 2A advocacy groups and I’ve sat through a couple of them.
Best bet is to call the USCCA number.
As far as recoupment, if you are found guilty or take a plea deal, in an imperfect self defense. The insurance company can seek recoupment.
@Enzo_T is a former employee he can probably give a better answer will tag mods as well.
Correct that is has to be there because it is not legal for the insurance company (universal fire and casualty insurance company) to insure and cover an intentional criminal act. There is no public information on how many times or if at all the recovery and recoupment clause has been pursued. According to the policy issued to the USCCA, the UFCIC has the right to seek recovery and recoupment (not that they necessarily will, but they could) following a final non-appealable guilty verdict or a plea deal which is an admission of a crime and not lawful self defense.
Potentially covered. That aspect of membership is for any lawful act of self defense not otherwise excluded, which could potentially be pushing someone. In simple terms, any degree of escalation that qualifies as an act of self defense you have the potential for coverage.
It was held at the range I belong to in Scottsdale AZ. There were two people representing USCCA, one giving a talk on concealed carry the other was signing people up. I got the impression the one taking orders was an employee of Delta Defense. Her email has her as “Account Executive-Arizona, Delta Defense, LLC”.
I didn’t join that night, I did some research first and compared what I had and what USCCA offered. Needless to say, USCCA came out on top
I guess what I am trying to say is at the State level, alot of Delta Defense employees are actually subcontractors and thus have a financial incentive to say something that they are not 100% correct on. So it’s in your best interest to just call the USCCA and ask them policy questions or to call the Insurer.
(“UFCIC”), a member of Universal Shield Insurance Group, Inc. (“USIG”). UFCIC issued Self-Defense Liability Policy No. --******-** (the “Policy”) to the United States Concealed Carry Association, Inc. (“USCCA”).
Above is the policy that USCCA carries it’s members as additional insured.
I’m being very precise in what I am trying to communicate. As I do not want to confuse.
So I called and asked seeing as this could get off course.
Any item that you can legally use for self defense is covered. The exact analogy was…
If you used Mace to defend yourself. Covered
If you used Wasp spray (which is illegal to use) Not Covered. Hope that clarifies the issue for you.
Anyone who has a wtf! About the comparison, please feel free to communicate with the USCCA about what you can use to save your life. I think it’s stupid but it’s their policy.
I guess you have to make sure you pick the right type of tool to defend yourself with.
Hi Zavier, Delta does NOT use subcontractors. Everyone presenting the program is a Delta employee, they HAVE TO be P&C licensed and they have to record their presentations so legal can audit them. And someone gave you bad info. If you are at home and are attacked and you have Wasp Spray handy (or a kitchen knife, or fire poker or baseball bat), and you use it to defend yourself you are covered.
To answer the OP
1- No insurance company will ever give you those numbers. But BTW insurance companies don’t usually win in court when they try to avoid paying claims or recoup money spent, most won’t even try. Of course you can alway find the odd case, like the ONE everyone brings up when trying to put down the USCCA because people don’t do their homework, easier to go on hearsay or BS they heard on the internet. The fact is that in general, VERY few judges/juries EVER side with an insurance company and it’s easier for them to write off money than to try to recover it.
2- Coverage starts when the law enforcement/legal system gets involved. A simple shoving match does not usually escalate to that level, BUT when in doubt, you call 911 and then immediately call the USCCA 800 number because if it escalates to a level where folks got hurt or charges are pressed, you want to be the first to bring charges and lawyer up. And this insurance allows you to do so at NO charge to you, so why not be proactive.
Everyone who sells USCCA memberships, including the representatives that come to/after classes, is a Delta Defense employee and is property and casualty insurance licensed in the state where it takes place/in the state where the member (or prospect) resides (in person or over the phone)
You could potentially have a covered act of self defense using wasp spray. I think you have seen the USCCA/Tom Grieve ask an attorney episode talking about it. You won’t likely find anybody who recommends planning to use wasp spray for self defense. It could potentially (I am not a lawyer) be considered lethal force, and could make things a lot more complicated that need be. Less lethal self defense tool? Carry and use pepper spray. Lethal force self defense? Firearm is best if possible, generally.
Hmmm I guess things have changed. I know they use subcontractors (someone on the forum is one, and I called them today and asked point blank). Unless they count outside salespeople that only receive a commission if they make a sale an employee. If they do that they are going to get sued as they have to ensure they are making a minimum of the minimum wage. Which can be done but is not being done for this person. So, I’m curious now.
Also the specific item was wasp spray and they sent me an email and a video. Saying that the membership would not cover that self defense and gave a couple of other instances as well.
Not a reach. My point is that if you do things right insurance companies have no basis to come after you.
Example: your house goes down in flames and you put a claim agains your homeowners policy. The insurance company will cover your losses up to the coverage limit you pay premiums for.
But if during the investigation the local Fire Department and Law Enforcement finds conclusive evidence that you set the house on fire on purpose and start an arson case against you, the insurance company will deny your claim, as they should.
They are not “coming after you”. They just will not pay the benefits which you are not entitled to.
But this is usually when dishonest people will find dishonest lawyers and sue the insurance company.
This thought that insurance companies “come after people” in civil court is not well understood. Insurance companies mostly secure legal counsel to stay out of trouble and defend themselves when THEY get sued. Not to “go after people”.