Coverage and Recoupment

I’ll make a call this week to my friends in the company and find out because I know as a fact the company as of less than a year ago was dead set against commission only contractors. That’s the model law shield uses and it lends itself to MANY problems, especially as mentioned where contractors are not personally liable for what they say and will give bad info just to close a sale.

USCCA maintains a group called Outside Sales and they are the ones that attend gun classes and present the membership. As I mentioned they are trained throughly, have to be P&C licensed and their presentations are recorded and submitted to legal for review. This was as of a year ago when I left the company. And then a few months later I asked again and got the same answer.

But I don’t want to give bad I for so I’ll check.

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As for the WASP spray I’ll look over the video because while it’s unsound to purposefully use it for tactical reasons and it will look bad for you legally to habitually carry and then use it for SD purposes, there is nothing in Federal Law that I know of prohibiting you from using is as a SD weapon so there is no reason the insurance company would negate coverage. But I’ll research it for my own edification.

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The forum goer here does not have a USCCA badge. I’ve asked them to pop on. Will continue with you in P.M.

I am going off of the 2 phone calls I made to the USCCA l made last night. I am interested as to their answer on this. I’m waiting on a callback from a Supervisor.

The conversation here is about Recoupment (which is the recovery of a benefit that’s already been paid). I’m not dishonest and I had 0 clue that if I used Wasp Spray that it would invalidate my Self Defense claim with regards to my membership benefits with the USCCA. If I was in a SD situation, the actions I have trained myself and family is to…

Step 1) Survive the Self Defense incident (not trying to be funny). Go to

Step 2) Call 911. Go to.

Step 3) Call the USCCA. Who by my specific instructions is to call my specific attorney of record and have him alerted that I need his service. Upon his receipt of said call, the meter starts running as far as money owed to him.
I know exactly how Insurance Companies work. As I worked as a Fraud Investigator for a fairly large one. Granted, this was 30+ years ago.

Step 4) Blah Blah and so on.

I am not talking about committing a fraud. I am talking very specifically about the USCCA, the 2 very specific phone calls I made to the USCCA, asking very specifically about a Self Defense claim involving Wasp Spray. The specific answer I got, was that, even if I was found to have acted in Self Defense. That my membership benefit would be denied. I’m not thrilled with that answer, so I am awaiting a call back from a supervisor.

Edit. I just spoke with a supervisor. The long answer was… Depends. There is a generalized Federal law about not using pesticide as a weapon against people. But nothing that said specifically about Wasp Spray. I have a Mace Gel and a Bear spray that I use.

I asked about Bear :bear::koala: Spray (sorry Yogi and Boo Boo)… Depends.

I even asked about disarming an attacker who has an NFA item and using it against them… Depends.

I got a lot of, dance around, dance around, and being told to be prepared by having the right self defense tools with me.

Hope this helped.

So, as I suspected, it depends is the definitive answers.

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This is what I am most interested in. I can’t myself (I am NOT a lawyer, though) find this law. The labels seems to indicate it as such (federally prohibited)…is it possibly because there is a federal law/reg about not using pesticides against people or something that doesn’t say “wasp spray” but says a category of chemical of which wasp spray is an example?

@Enzo_T

In case you missed the edit.

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Interesting, never occurred to me to even look into this as a separate issue from firearms etc. For me the, if it’s all that’s handy, a face full of insecticide it is and I’ll deal with it later. But I would never count or carry wasp or any other insecticide as a SD weapon when I have so many other proven/legit options.

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I guess that’s possible but it’s news to me so I’ll research it further.

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I got the ANSWERS! Spoke to a USCCA agent then a UFCIC agent and here is what I learned, even asked your wasp spray question

  1. They have never attempted recoupment thus far. Which explains why I have never heard of them actually doing it. They dont provide coverage past the first conviction, you are responsible for fighting your own appeals but they will consider reimbursing you if you appeal successfully. No definitive answer, they say it depends case by case
  2. It depends on if there is a justifiable belief there was a risk of serious bodily injury. Play it safe and call, so they can decide if it falls within coverage
  3. Wasp spray. It depends on the context. If you in your garage and get attack and it was in reach, then yes. But if you walking your dog and someone attacks and you carrying wasp spray with you, probably not
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I am rather curious about the answer you got to #1, RE: Appeals. Who specifically gave you that answer? Like company/number called/first name if you can?

That one was weird because USCCA said they do cover appeals but UFCIC (616-662-3900) provided the answer above. Dont remember her name

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Has anyone else received this?

SELF-DEFENSE LIABILITY INSURANCE UPDATE**

We are always looking to improve USCCA Membership for you and your fellow 825,000+ USCCA Members.

Today, I’m excited to announce important improvements to the self-defense liability insurance policy issued to the USCCA that gives you, a responsibly armed USCCA Member, the insurance coverage you need!

LEARN MORE

Check out all of the improvements at NO EXTRA COST TO YOU!

  • [NEW] Impartial Coverage Determination — Coverage is not determined by the insurance company. Instead, the insurance company is contractually REQUIRED to grant coverage so long as your defense attorney believes there is a good faith self-defense claim and the judge allows you and your attorney to make that argument in court until a final, non-appealable finding of guilt is reached.

  • [NEW] Plea Deal Coverage — If you take a plea deal for something that is NOT a “crime of violence”, your coverage doesn’t end. Too often, a prosecutor will threaten to prosecute self-defenders on murder charges or offer a plea deal for a lesser crime and lower sentence. This puts good gun owners in a tough situation: plead guilty to something you didn’t do for a lesser sentence OR potentially lose a MURDER trial and face 10+ years in prison. This update to the policy purchased by the USCCA gives you more freedom to choose which path is right for you.

  • [NEW] “Red Flag” Law Coverage — If you are facing an “Extreme Risk Protection Order” also known as a “Red Flag” law that would unconstitutionally strip away your gun rights, the policy provides you up to $15,000 towards attorney fees and expenses to defend yourself.

  • [UPDATE] Criminal Acts Exclusion — While the USCCA’s insurer has never made a coverage decision merely based on the fact that a member was charged with a crime, this revision to the policy makes that misunderstanding impossible. As long as a judge allows you and your attorney to make a self-defense claim in court, there will be coverage.

  • [UPDATE] No Elective Recovery or Recoupment of Expenses — The previous policy purchased by the USCCA allowed the insurance company to recoup any coverage expenses if the member was found guilty. Despite the fact that the USCCA’s insurer has NEVER done this, this revision to the policy ensures that this can only happen if a government agency forces them to do so based on applicable law — they can never do it just to benefit their bottom line.

  • [UPDATE] Up to $100,000 $250,000 Available for Bail Bond Expenses — This covers the normal upfront cost for a $1,000,000 $2,500,000 bail bond. With the bias against armed self-defense increasing in many states, this new limit ensures you’re still able to fight for your innocence without your hands tied behind your back, even if a slanted judge unjustly decides you’re a “flight risk” or “danger to the public” just because you choose to carry a gun for self-protection.

  • [NEW] Expunging/Sealing Records Coverage — Up to $5,000 for attorneys fees and expenses to expunge or seal the records associated with a covered incident. What many gun owners don’t realize is that just because you’re declared innocent doesn’t mean the public information about your case goes away. And sometimes felony charges can even hang around on your record for years! This new coverage gives you the funds needed to ensure you can put the legal aftermath of your self-defense incident behind you for GOOD.

  • [NEW] Removal of Previous Coverage Exclusions — Coverage is no longer affected if your self-defense incident occurs within a post office or federal building. Also, the great firefighters and paramedics who serve the public are no longer excluded from coverage while on duty.

  • [NEW] Loss of Earnings Coverage — Previously, USCCA Members could only get any lost income reimbursed if the time off was taken at the request of the insurance company. With this added coverage, all USCCA Members also get access to funds to cover lost income in the first 30 days after a self-defense incident.

LEARN MORE

These upgrades are in addition to your current self-defense liability insurance benefits, which include:

  • Defense Expenses: No limit for your criminal or civil defense.
  • Liability Insurance: Up to $2,000,000.
  • Incidental Expenses: Up to $20,000.
  • Coverage for all Acts of Self-Defense with any legal weapon.

To view the fully updated policy that is in effect as of June 5, 2024, click here.

With this update to the self-defense liability insurance policy, you should have even greater peace of mind knowing that with the education, training, and self-defense liability insurance all USCCA Members get, you’re fully prepared for the before, during, and after of a self-defense incident.

Take care and stay safe,

Tim's Signature287x87

Tim Schmidt
CEO, Delta Defense LLC
1-855-388-4075 [24/7]

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Yup, those are going out today

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Raymond45 am I covered? If I can not find my truck after coming back out of Walmart. And I have to call a taxi :taxi:?? Is that a self defense thing sir or just a to much root beer :beer: issue ?? Seriously a question?? O here’s ya a root beer :beer: sir.

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Hey Bobbyjean is there such a thing as too much root beer ? Good morning to to you Debbie Ann sir!! :us:

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Arnie-W. Great LORDS DAY. My Brother. LET. ME TELL YOU JUST WHAT A. ROOT BEER. :beer: IS.:bangbang:. Brother A. Root Beer . :beer: is. The kindness. And.RESPECT. :bangbang::bangbang::100:. From within. The .HART. So that’s your Answer. Brother. They are plenty. OF. Insults. And. Rude. Comments.:bangbang: you all really have the answer . !! Here’s ya a Root.Beer. A&W. It’s the cheapest!! And I. Got my 8, millimeter.Ammunition!! For my. Birthday . Present. And. That’s . The best. Long. Tool. I . Own. I. Hit. A. Target the size of a stop :stop_sign: sign.!! At. 3.QUARTERS. Of. A. Mile. And that was with just the high lift. Sighs. That are on. It. The GERMENS. Seriously. Made. The.SHITTi. Woohoo. . Brother. I . Could. Barely make that. Shot. With. The 30,0.6. Here’s ya a root beer. :beer: I wish you could see my new. Present. KAZ it looks like the day it. Was born. And I just bought a new strap . For it. And I . Definitely. Love to give root beer. In stead. Of saying. Is. Their. To much love in the community or the world. My brother. Sharpen UP. Love Bobby Jean . And Debbie ann. :us::feather::feather::v:t5::cherry_blossom:

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