Why are manufacturers so strange?

So, I’ve just had yet another very odd communication with yet another firearms manufacturer. Is it just me?

I ordered from LockedLoaded (for the last time) a S&W (also likely for the last time) product. Neither is willing to provide basic info such as length, width, height. They say is it proprietary information…yet the owner can just hold a ruler up to it. I don’t get it and it feels like they’re just being a PITA. The particular model isn’t on their sites.

I’ve had dreadful communications with Ruger about their firearms and producs like shirts, holsters, bags, etc.

Beretta is even worse. They make you fel like you’re an idiot for calling and worse for actually bothering them.

And I recently comments on the Canik site, which has lovely pictures, but provides no clues about the variances in their model, or what the names mean/indicate.

What gives? I’ve not seen this in any “real” industries. Amazon Chinese stuff, I get it, but firearms? Hiding useful info?


No kidding. Sig, my personal go to brand, in one of its product Q&A sections answered someone who asked what thread is on a particular barrel replied they don’t share that information. WTH?



Did you try looking at the manufacturer’s Web site? Two clicks from the S&W main page and I had the dimensions of an “M&P® BODYGUARD® 38 Integrated Crimson Trace® Laser MA Compliant.”

@Alces_Americanus - that’s not surprising, since Sig wants you to use a Sig suppressor.


Of course. A place like Ruger lists everything, as do most, but S&W seems to focus on being a thorn, so I’m done with them after this purchase. Their customer service people, phone and e-mail, dont’ seem to have been taught what either of those words in their title mean. :slight_smile:

Ruger example

S&W example Barrel length only? And weight as what? Loaded? Unloaded? Mag size? Shipping weight? They don’t even list my model, and the customer service people said “sorry.”


A lot of sales people I encounter these days don’t have the slightest clue about the details of what they are selling. Most of them just want to punch in and which the clock or their phone until they punch out. Informed and informative sales people are an endangered species.


I get it. You’re unhappy. But not unhappy enough to not purchase the gun.

“With either a standard 10+1 round or 13+1 extended 9mm magazine”

Do you really need the shipping weight?

You have enough experience to know this is going to be the unloaded weight.

I’ll give you that one.

The point I’m trying to make is that most of the information you want is easily available. Should the customer service rep have been willing and able to give it to you right away? Sure. Absolutely. However, did you consider that the particular individual you reached was either very new or having one crap-filled day already?


I fear that I haven’t made my point, or your watching reality TV while watching the forum. lol

I’m not unhappy. I’m disappointed. “We can’t tell you the width becasue that information is private, but we can sell you one so that you can measure it” is a stupid response. Enough that I won’t buy any more of their products. I don’t believe is supporting idiocy when better is available. I went the same route with Ruger and Beretta accessories. They don’t publish or know anything about the items they sell (which is a shame, as a lot of it is good).

I don’t want the shipping weight, I want a descrtiption of what weight they list, so that I might compare to competition, from their own other offerings and from other competitors. This hardly seems unreasonable in the category of weight or others.

The info you found was, again on items on their site. My item number isn’t on their site, despite it being one of their products…so I’m left with getting my hands on it to know what it is that I’ve bought. I don’t even like buying a burger under those conditions. lol

Hands up. We’re going to need a shovel to find the bar soon…


That’s what I figured.


I’m never that bored. :slight_smile:

Ok. You’ve made that point. You’re disappointed.

I haven’t the words to emphasize enough how curious you have me - and possibly others - as to what this unicorn of a gun could be that you want, even with your disappointment with customer service. And especially since you can’t get information you consider important before your purchase. That’s the point I keep missing…or you haven’t made. :wink:


“Come on Man!” Joe.
“You have to sign it to find out what’s in it.” Nancy.

“Customer Service” has become a sign on the door not an ethos or even something to be considered in many big end shops. There are some few exceptions.

My youngest son just had some FANTASTIC customer service from Bear Creek Arsenal. He ordered an AR upper and they had it in Fed Ex the next day. It hit Charlotte that night. The next day it was in Tennessee. The next it was in Oklahoma…

We live in Virginia, they are in North Carolina 3 hours out.

Long trail story short it ended up in California and was reported as “Lost”. Jr calls up Fed Ex and raises he!! and finds out an employee had stolen a whole bunch of things off the truck in CA and was being investigated. So he calls Bear Creek with his tale of woe.

No hesitation not even a “we’ll check on it”, the cat on the phone said “If it’s not to your house on Friday we will drive one to your house on Saturday.” Jr is floored, I’m floored, Momma is floored. Low and behold at 16:35 Friday afternoon a Fed Ex CAR rolls up with said package wrapped in stickers that roughly translate to GET IT THERE! NOW!! My boy being an honest soul called Bear Creek said the package arrived and thanks.

The next day he got an e-mail from some high mucky muck apologizing for the delay and had a 50% off your entire next order coupon attached to it. Not their fault but it was their product and they shipped it on that carrier and OWNED it.

Fed Ex actually came through also. It went from “Lost” to ORF (Norfolk Intl. Fed Ex hub) to “Out for Delivery” to the door in like 2 hours.

There is some hope for little things that make a big difference in the world.




You crack me up. There’s nothing mysteious about it (item 13329), but the item doesn’t matter. What matters is that a manufacturer refuses to provide info on it. The order was placed before I made the inquiries and I’;m content with whatever it is…I just want to know what it is. That has nothing to do with the prior statement, does it? Perhaps I expect too much…no one seems to know much of anything about much of anything anymore. This is how we got to where we are in the U.S. You should look up the Death of Expertise, an interesting (if not not written very well) book.

I can’t keep making my point. We’re way past Segal’s law.


I hear you, but as someone said on the phone with S&W you are talking to an order taker.

The guy standing across the counter at the local brick and mortar is a salesman!

Sorry for your grief!



Back at ya, sir. :wink:




Thanks for the link. It shows the same as all sites, and is still missing the same info the others are. :innocent:


Sorry. That was for George.

Elza, that is a cool site and way to compare. Thank you! I bookmarked it.

(Here’s a similar one for motorcyles, for those who ride._


Stories about customer service contacts are like so many other reports of commercial interaction----for every bad experience there’s someone who reports how wonderfully they were treated.

To wit: I contacted Ruger customer service a while back because during a small trigger upgrade project a spring went flying across my shop, never to be seen again. I called, explained the situation and asked what could be done. The rep said “Give me your address and I’ll send you one.” I asked how much it would cost and he said “Don’t worry about it; we’ll just send you one.” A few days later the spring arrived in my mailbox. I thought this was pretty good service, especially considering that I had purchased the gun well more than a year before and the loss of the spring was entirely my own fault, all of which I had explained to the rep. End result: functioning gun, happy customer.

For every horror story out there, there’s someone else with a happy ending.


I don’t know about Ruger giving information but I know when my 9C was sent back to the factory with a broken spring they fixed it right away and sent it back like it was new.


We all have differing experiences. My interactions with the manufacturers of the products I own, or those I am researching before I purchase, have all been extremely positive. No issues in getting straight answers to my questions