What if situations based on true crimes

Hello,
I am a student that goes to UIC in Chicago Illinois. While I obviously cant carry on campus (because someone in the administration feels criminals and people who would harm you or others should get a free pass), I carry everywhere else (allowable) around the area going to shops or other businesses. I get crime reports that happen on and near campus which can be used for ‘what if situations’. Today, I got this one:

“On Saturday, Sept. 11, at approximately 12 a.m. UIC Police received a report of an armed robbery at 1711 W. Roosevelt Rd. The victim, who is not affiliated with UIC, was on the sidewalk when a male offender approached and displayed a firearm in his waistband and demanded the victim’s property. The offender is described as a male, approximately 20-25 years old, with dreadlock hair and dark clothing. The offender fled on foot heading westbound on Roosevelt Rd. and then southbound on S. Wood St. The victim was not injured.” -UIC crime reporting

I wasn’t sure if in this situation him just showing you his gun in the waist band would get you in trouble if you drew your firearm to defend your self. Legally speaking Im not sure where you would stand. Would it be justified if you were forced to shoot this person threatening your life if you don’t comply. Obviously, in retrospect the person robbed just gave him the stuff and he wasn’t hurt. Criminal or not, someone dead is never ideal unless absolutely necessary. What do you all think?

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I’d be drawing my gun. I just got threatened with the implication that I’m getting shot. I didn’t sign a contract with this guy that if I give him my stuff he won’t shoot me. Not a lawyer, and if he didn’t make a move I’d hopefully not shoot…Ideal world, hold him and call 911, next best is he flees and the gun is a fake. Just my opinion.

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Didn’t a situation like this just happen in Texas? Except the suspect was shot.

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Use your intuition. Do you feel lucky? I mean that armed robbery wont turn into murder, or kidnapping or some sick thing. Concern about interaction with the justice system is legitimate, but remember, there is no law that says you should value your murderer’s life more than your own.

You should also consider tactical advantage: once he draws his gun, you lose it.

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Yeap. The “poor” assailant was legally shot into his face.

Regarding Chicago’s case. My son was UIC student living in “James J. Stukel Towers” for 2 years.
Yes - this is “f^&*&^g gun free zone”. He never left building between 10pm - 5am because he knew what could happen. Gunshots are Chicago Downtown Night music…

What do I think about this particular case?
Draw and defend yourself. However… it doesn’t mean shoot.
If you draw efficiently you will see there is no threat against you. There is a big chance that attacker’s firearm is still in “displayed in his waistband” position. I such case the offender will flee on foot… but way faster.
And… don’t forget to call the cops :wink:

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1986, In Los Angeles, I was done with working armed security and go home. My car would not start and I was only four miles from home. My partner and I decided since it was New Years we would just walk home. A mile from the house a guy comes along on a bike and says, Happy New years! then pulls a knife up to the neck of my partner. The assailant asks for our money. He gets $16.00. He takes off and we head over to the closest convenient store to call the police and report this.
My friend was mad at me because I left my gun locked up in my car. I legally could not carry concealed but I could carry open if I am on duty. So, I could not. I was smart enough not to wear my uniform because that would make me more of a target. So, analyze that!

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If a person displays a firearm in his/her waist band and demands your property whether they draw it or not it’s an armed robbery. The person displaying the firearm is doing it to intimidate you and is also showing what there intent is if you resist. If I were the victim even being armed I would not resist because one wrong move he will draw on you. I would comply and give up the property because that can be replaced. Try to get a good description while you have a chance. If you happen to push your luck and you can draw first and happen to kill the perp and he never drew his gun what explanation would you give the responding LEOs when a dead body is there with the gun still in his waist band. These what if’s have to be taken into account. A good prosecutor can say he never drew his weapon and can represent the dead guys family in a wrongful death lawsuit. Are you willing to take that chance. That’s just me, just saying.

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I think if the opportunity presented itself, I would draw first but not shoot unless the perp pushes their luck.

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I had a situation about 3 years ago where a man tried to rob me and wanted everything I had but he only showed me a slide Auto gun I turn to the side and reached the buckle to my Tommygunpack and drew my 1911 45acp and pointed to his head in which he immediately did a about face and ran like the devil was chasing him. In which I put my 1911 45acp back in its place and call 911 to report the situation, and Officer showed up minutes later took my report and said they were looking for this guy as he had done it before. He thanked me ask to see my rig, like it gave it back and sent me on my way. Later that evening the Officer called me and said by my description they found him two blocks away in the act of doing it to someone else.

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My theory has been just confirmed :clap:

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Local rules will apply, but it will be a gamble whichever way you cut it.

Say “I don’t think so”, and bad guy moves along. Or say “No, thanks”, and get killed.
Give up your stuff, and bad guy goes away. Or give up your stuff, and get shot anyway.
Pull your gun, and bad guy goes away. Or go for your gun, and have the quickdraw competition.
Shoot the bad guy when he puts his hands up, and see if a lawyer can perform magic.
No sure bet, really. And plenty of bad possibilities, even without the law stuffing you for some unexpected reason.

I would probably try to assess the bad guy for crazy. If I thought he seemed homicidal or even intended to put hands on, I would look for my best advantage to draw against the display. If I thought he was just after a few bucks, I hope I’d be smart enough to give up what I could afford. I don’t carry much cash and my flip-phone is worth maybe $5.00 — probably less without the charger. :roll_eyes:

If I think my gun will be discovered, I really want to get my hands on it first.

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I’m drawing my weapon and dispatching him. The threat has been made when he showed that weapon. I’m not going to give him the opportunity to gain a better concealed location to shoot me or worse harm or kill some other innocent victim. Thugs need to know that people are starting to refuse to be victims anymore and may need to go into a healthier occupation.

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That’s a tough one. My first thought is to give up the $10 bucks and go on with life. But then I remember a dead witness doesn’t talk so I have to wonder if he does the deed after he get’s my dough. If you win the quick draw contest and he’s left empty handed you could probably convince him to run off or If he reached for his gun and you fire first, would you be called the aggressor?
I think here in Utah the law wants to lean in favor of the victim but that’s no guaranty you won’t get dragged through 10 miles of mud…

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If the burglar pulls up his/her shirt just to show you the firearm I don’t think he/she is serious or it’s their first time. That would be a fight or flee moment. If they actually present the firearm then I would be concerned and give them my brother’s credit card.

“I got mugged at knife point once, I could tell the guy was an amateur, there was still butter on the knife”-RD

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There are other sources of the same concepts, but I think Kathy Jackson covers the ground nicely:
http://www.corneredcat.com/article/legal-concerns/ability-opportunity-jeopardy/
Ability and opportunity seem clearly present in the scenario posed.

Whether you call it jeopardy or intent, I agree that to shoot a person who displays but does not touch a holstered gun when announcing a holdup may save your life. But it will also throw your future into the hands and judgements of local legal standards, witnesses, surviving family of Bad Guy, lawyers, judges, jurors, et al.

It seems easy to argue a clear intent to intimidate or frighten you into compliance with Mr Guy’s plan. Whether there is sufficient clarity of intent to do you bodily harm may not be so obvious to the others who will get to have a say in the matter. I would suggest remaining focused on your personal safety, and whether the three legs of lethal force justification are present — maybe leave “teaching thugs a lesson” for a more controlled venue.

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For me, I want to go home to my friends and family and you win 100% of the fights that you are not in. If I were to try and draw my weapon, can I be certain that I could use it before he uses his? In this situation, I will just give him what he wants and live to file a report.

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How do you know you’ll live to file a report? Why carry? My gun is next to my wallet, so if he sees one, he sees the other most likely. Conversely, I can say I’m going for one, but draw the other.

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I hate to comment on this one because only those whom lived somewhat the same kind of lifestyle I had will understand but here goes anyway. If I am with someone ( such as wife or children’s ), he get to go home but if I am alone and armed, one of us might not make it home that day. If I am lucky I just got me a throw away and hopefully he will not call the cops on me. :joy:

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Hmm…Do you think a criminal would be less mad if he sees you happily surrounded by your family. I cant get inside the thug mind, but my defensive insticts would be stronger when my kids are near

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Perfect ending.

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