Video: Gun pulled at Salem Oregon Antifa protest

Curious for the opinion of the community on this one. Do you have to wait for the rock or the bat from the peaceful protestors to be 2 inches from your head before you can defend yourself? Was this man truly acting in self-defense, or was HE the threatening individual who was out of line? Was he brandishing? Did he not retreat when he should have? Was the response from the LEO in any way excessive?

The news item…

Raw video…

Admittedly, having more of the lead-up to this would be useful.


IDK. Would be interesting to see it from more video/camera angles. I did not see reason for persons to throw objects at his vehicle, that was wrong.

Seemed like limited view. Not taking sides, my other reaction is thinking “exiting the vehicle was not the best course of action”, as opposed to continuing to drive, and file a police report for car damage if there was any. What did someone do to make him brandish or point? Would brandishing for pointing stop them from throwing?

I’d be interested to learn how is the court is going to rule on his brandishing or aiming/pointing? Still, did not seem right for persons to throw objects; Not sure how often police arrest for that regardless of rally/protest stance or cause.

We’re lucky, in that he teaches us lessons, he learned the hard way. Laws are complex and differ by state. Complicated further by the sheer high volume of population we live in, as compared to the 1700 & 1800’s. Of course he has a right to assemble, but they just got what they wanted, him arrested.

Should I march in a rally like he did? If so, should I bring my CCW? A march like that, no matter how much I agree or support it, is going to draw counter protestors.

Was his life at risk? What if he fired the gun and the person shot were to die? How would the court rule then?

I’m oversimplifying and overgeneralizing here, but back to the laws, I once heard a layperson say, “never draw your firearm unless you intend to pull the trigger”. I think one of the ideas behind that is, you may only shoot when life depends on it, and you either brandish and shoot or never brandish it at all. I’m not saying to follow this as a rule, but only mentioning it as food for thought. Now the poor fellow might be in “hot water”.

Due to complexities, train oneself on the “usage laws” until one is proficient and can teach others; as much as one trains on firing or at the range.

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The story states his vehicle was being attacked. Obviously he decided getting out and confronting his attackers was the best tactic. The story states that the attackers did back away, then the thugs (aka police) detained him. Clearly, defending oneself from harm is not legal there. The question is if you were being attacked as he was, what would you do?

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Not sure how to word this
If a person is driving a motor vehicle and another person strikes it with a rock/brick/club or an unknown liquid, is the driver allowed to retaliate with deadly force ? If the driver uses a firearm in self defense is he/she required to fire it down the middle of the street in a manner as to not hit any humans ? If a vehicle is considered a deadly weapon, why would the driver be required to retreat instead of defend them self?

This is what their strategy is, to antagonize and attempt to provoke a response, and to their organization leaders hopes of creating martyrs in my opinion.

You see how they focus in on lone, easy targets, then once their target attempts to defend themselves, the “independent witnesses” or “independent media” swoop in to video record/document the event, all the while with the crowd of Antifa members crying for help trying to portray themselves as the victims, with the “teams in charge of agent provocateurs” still antagonizing the situation, while the “lead teams” bounce out to scurry away to disappear into the crowd after their attack.

So being an armchair quarterback would result in most everyone stating getting out would be all downhill from there.

Yet if you stay in the vehicle, they surround/block you and try to make you run them over.

They’ve been found to carry their own weapons, emergency car tools to smash your windows, and seatbelt cutters to pull and drag you out.


old man was attacked 1st by the thugs. police obviously didn’t get to see the full view. Did he pull his gun a little to early, hard to say for me, the camera views are not clear enough on the thugs advances.

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Not one to back away from a fight, but also not one to go looking for a fight. Why these folks, both sides, are so into this chest thumping belly bumping pissing contest is beyond me.
I was also trained to not pull my firearm unless I was using it. I’ll stick to that training.


The courts exist to sort this stuff out afterwards. The state police officer(s) had a duty to intervene and the 1st order of business in this scenario was…correctly…to eliminate the FIREARM THREAT and secure the firearm. Don’t allow your ego to make things worse. Drop the gun and follow instructions. Once LE shows up, they are in charge…period.


I’ll say, at least the guy who pulled his gun was only detained. I’m so sick of oathbreakers going after law abiding citizens, instead of GOING AFTER, ARRESTING, CHARGING, AND LEAVING TO ROT IN JAIL, members from antifa and BLM.
Although, I suppose having a D.A. who is sympathetic to Antifa, continuing to release these CHARGED criminals, doesn’t help things either.


Clearly, US flags attract attention and hate of terror mob attackers.

The biggest mistake, he stopped.
Mistake 2, he exited the car and started to engage with the terror mob verbally.
These are serious tactical mistakes, that made him vulnerable in exactly the way they wanted him vulnerable.

Optics of the video (filmed by one of the vermin terrorists) shows him drawing the gun and then not pointing it at anyone. Why did he draw it then? No danger? It is brandishing! A prosecutor could hold it against him, and still may.

Also, note that he had to rack it. Note how much time it took him, but that’s for the topic on carrying with one in the pipe.


This (brandishing) isn’t even a crime in Oregon. SMH

The man was clearly attacked (according to OR state law) by a mob using weapons and he drew his pistol and charged it without pointing it at anybody. Perfectly legal.


Let’s say Borat comes to Oregon to learn culture. What do you think a total ignoramus will conclude after he witnesses this scene. What is crime and what is not crime and is protected by police?

I just hope you are right, and the gentleman does not get charged later.

That if you identify as a member of the appropriate group, you can show up with and throw rocks and paint bombs, and confront the “opposition” because they fly an American flag on their truck. And NONE of those actions are considered “brandishing” or threatening to LE or the US judicial system.

As a member of said “opposing group” that is being threatend by the mob, and in the event you are entirely on your own, showing that you are able to defend yourself with deadly force (even if as a warning and with verbal evidence of that warning), is a crime or at least potentially a crime.

As a “total ignoramous”, that would be my clue as to how people behave in the “land of the free”.

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Depends on the state laws governing deadly force (see the Reciprocity Map for details on state-specific laws).

A good way to look at the situation is what would a “reasonable person” do in the same situation? And yes, there are a million different definitions of “reasonable person.”

I’m not sure what you’re asking here. If it’s as a warning shot, my best answer would probably be no - warning shots are a bad idea and illegal in many states.

If it’s shooting to defend yourself, remember you’re responsible for every round that leaves your gun no matter who or what it hits.

Vehicles can be considered deadly weapons. Legally required to retreat or not would depend on the state laws (and again I would suggest checking out the Reciprocity Map for details on state-specific laws).


A couple of Devil’s advocate type of questions for you all:

  1. Why would you go to counter-protest armed especially with how recent protests have evolved into really bad situations?
    (An instructor I teach with often asks this question in our concealed carry classes: if you wouldn’t go there without a gun, why go there with a gun?)

  2. Maybe the police arrested him to get him out of the situation as safely as possible? :thinking:

  3. Would you want to have to take the time to rack a round into the chamber to defend yourself?


[quote=“USCCA, post:15, topic:58194, full:true”]
A couple of Devil’s advocate type of questions for you all:

  1. Why would you go to counter-protest armed especially with how recent protests have evolved into really bad situations? I wouldn’t, but he had a right to be foolish in this country.
    (An instructor I teach with often asks this question in our concealed carry classes: if you wouldn’t go there without a gun, why go there with a gun?)
  2. Maybe the police arrested him to get him out of the situation as safely as possible? :thinking: That was pretty much my point in my first reply to the OP. And said cops are definitely trained to take the GUN out of the fight FIRST…every time. They are trained to realize they are going in without all the facts, too.
  3. Would you want to have to take the time to rack a round into the chamber to defend yourself?
    [/quote] No, but almost everyone in the US military in a combat zone is operating under that same restriction. So most veterans…esp the old-timers…consider it normal, and it is included in their decision trees about self-defense. ie. draw a bit SOONER, rack, reevaluate the situation. That’s how we were taught back in the day. Generally speaking, the wise never stop learning and adapting, BUT there is a lot to be said for sticking to what you KNOW in a pinch. There is also a lot to be said for the reality that sentient beings tend to “run home to momma” when scared or confused. In other words, we tend to revert to things we feel are safe and comfortable.

Another video from a different angle. Run it full screen and watch closely. A “protestor” carrying a shield puts something into the back of the truck cab as the owner is walking around the tailgate. The owner looks in to see what it was. He then draws the gun. Not clear what was going on.

Again, he’s alone, and people with masks and shields are tossing stuff into his truck. I count at least 5 dudes in black with helmets. Against one.

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It was a back-the-blue rally. Supposedly arranged by the Proud Boys. I suppose das ist verboten. Regardless, AntiFa were the counter-protestors.


Ah-ha! Interesting what assumptions we tend to make, huh? Way too much Internet-based Monday Morning Quarterbacking in the gun culture in the name of “training.” It isn’t training when done this way. :pleading_face:

This happened a few miles from where I live, during the time about when it happened, I happened to be out of town…

Looks like he still had some visibility through his windshield, best course IMO, would be to drive off and if one of these terrorist kids were to be hit by the truck, we’ll, that will teach you not to create blind spots on vehicles…

Poor choice engaging with the mob.

These things continuing to happen is pushing my fiance to wanting her own gun more and more plus training with it (from a family that is somewhat on the anti-gun type stance).