US Air Force Airman Fatally Shot by Police

Absolutely!

And you should not answer by opening the door with a gun in your hand, either, no matter who it is or you think it is

IMO not answering is far preferred to going up and opening the door with a gun in your hand, and it’s not even close

I get the concept but here’s my conundrum. When I open my front door I am about 2 feet from the person on the other side. I personally can stop you from drawing a firearm if I’m that close. So to say, be armed but keep it concealed seems to decrease my chances of survival if SD force is necessary.

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If you are worried the person on the other side might draw a gun and shoot you, don’t open the door?

Identify who is on the other side without opening the door or even making yourself visible, and if you are concerned they might draw a gun and shoot you, retreat away from that door…they could shoot you through the door too

One of my worst habits is to stand directly in line behind the door.

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We’ve already said if it’s the police they are mot required to identify themselves, so if I stand in side and ask I still have no more information than I did before.

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Then don’t open the door

But FTR I think we decided there is no need to announce ID themselves for merely walking up, or knocking.

I don’t know if that’s different than answering when asked who they are

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That’s why I have a 3x locked screen door on both entrances. :slightly_smiling_face:
I also put 3" house numbers on my outside doors.

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That’s just an excuse for them to get out the two man door smasher thingy. Then you’ll have to pay the cost of repair even if they went to the wrong place.

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X3 locks are for when I do answer the inner door so no one can just walk in. :slightly_smiling_face:

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This is a very good question. One that, if you really slow the words down, read it slowly and thoughtfully, it’s kinda scary! On the one hand you have the right to defend yourself and your home from any foreign wouldbe invader (ANY), but on the other hand you can’t because of who it is (or PURPORT to be) - whether they are supposed to be there or NOT. IMO, if you’re in the wrong place and you don’t approach correctly, then you get what you get! That why the whole No Knock Warrant crap is just SFTBs.

Now, conversely, could there have been something else that could have been done by the service member (SM)? This, I guess we will find out.

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Yes… He could have put the pistol out of sight in several ways. I would have done so. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Is there a law stating police can shoot a person in their abode because he/she is holding a firearm? The guy was not pointing it at the officer. He was not brandishing it, and he was in his own abode.

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Yes, there is. Depending on circumstances of course. The question is, do these circumstances meet that?

Part of answering the question of “do these circumstances meet that standard” includes evaluating the totality of the circumstances.

While we were evaluating the totality of the circumstances, it was suggested that the officer was required by law to announce himself as police simply for being outside the abode. We seem to have concluded, that, no, the officer does not have to announce himself for simply being outside the abode.

That’s all the exact post and point you quoted was about…is the officer required to announce presence simply for being there? Our answer seems to be “no”

I think there is a difference between “just being there” and knocking on doors. At some point the cops to me it seems would be required to announce themselves as being police. Otherwise I would think they are trespassing and mean me harm.

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Is there a law or case example you are aware of that requires police to announce they are police in order to knock on a door?

Please don’t assume anyone who knocks on your apartment door means you harm just because they don’t say “Police” (and dont’ assume they are police just because they say “Police”)

In my experience, the vast majority of people who knock on a front door do not verbally announce themselves…that doesn’t mean they intend harm.

And please don’t open the door while holding a firearm

If you assume they mean harm (even if merely because they knocked on your door), please don’t open your door at all

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Cornell University insigniaCornell Law SchoolSearch Cornell

knock-and-announce rule

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Under common law knock-and-announce rule, a police officer executing a search warrant generally should not immediately force their way into a residence. Instead, the officer must first knock, identify themselves and their intent, and wait a reasonable amount of time for the occupants to let them into the residence.

Reasonableness Inquiry

When a lawsuit is filed over an officer’s entry into a home, a court conducts an inquiry into whether the entry was reasonable. In Wilson v. Arkansas, the Supreme Court held that whether the knock-and-announce principle was adhered to constitutes one factor that a court must consider.

Exclusionary Rule

In Hudson v. Michigan, the Supreme Court held that the violation of the knock-and-announce rule does not justify excluding evidence related to the violation of this rule.

Permissible No-Knock Situations

In Richards v. Wisconsin, the Supreme Court held that an officer is not required to knock and announce if doing so would be unreasonable. This includes situations in which officers suspect that announcing their presence would be dangerous, futile, or result in the destruction of evidence.

In some jurisdictions, courts may also grant a no-knock search warrant which waives the officer’s knock-and-announce requirement. To obtain this warrant, the warrant applicant usually has to prove the request is reasonably justified to prevent danger, futility, or destruction of evidence. However, if their request is denied, officers may still enter unannounced if they find themselves in a permissible no-knock situation.

[Last updated in June of 2023 by the Wex Definitions Team]

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Futility? HHmmmm that one seems to open a whole bunch of doors. (See what I did there? :crazy_face:

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:. :pig_nose: :pig_nose:
SNORT SNORT

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How is an officer forcing entry into a home relevant to this scenario?

If you watch the video you will note that no officer forced their way into the home.

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I simply posted an article to back up what you were saying, I know… :scream:

Calm down Francis. :roll_eyes:

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