Shooting Competency for Carry Permit?

#1

In Wisconsin, we don’t have a shooting competency requirement for our Concealed Carry Permits.

Does your non-Constitutional Carry state have shooting competency requirement?

In general, do you think there should be a competency requirement for carrying a gun?

#2

@Dawn in Arizona if you take the CCW course there is a live shooting part of the course. I took an 8 hour course. Half was classroom and half was live fire. then we took a test. And the course that I took also had someone do the finger print cards for us to sent in with the app. And Arizona is a Constitutional Carry State. But as far as I know unless you’re getting a permit there isn’t any type of shooting competency requirement.

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#3

Permits aren’t required in Missouri but if you get one for reciprocity it includes competency training/test.
Michigan, where I recently took a CC course also does.
If a permit is requiring training, I’m good with training/test including a shooting section, I can’t see a good reason for not having it.

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#4

I think that people who buy guns like to shoot them and understand them. I don’t think that gun owners are as stupid as the media would have us believe. Also, I don’t hear of law abiding gun owners and permit holders in WI shooting eachother like crazy. Last gun deer season in WI there was what 400 some odd thousand people in the state walking around with guns? Not one accident. Some could argue that hunters safety is a competence course, but you don’t have to hit your target to pass the class.

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#5

When I first earned my permit in Maine (several years before we went to Constitutional Carry), we had to do live fire drills with various 22LR pistols. These were basic drills that basically just made sure you could handle a gun safely. As long as there is a permit requirement, I will always advocate for basic live fire competency drills to be included.

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#6

Tennessee does. 50 rounds, 20 at 3 yards, 20 at 5 and 7 yards. 8 hours total between classroom and range.

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#7

On one hand I totally agree with you… and on the other, I’m looking at the makeup of the CC course I took recently.

  • Probably more than half of the 35 people had some to a lot of firearms experience. Two of those really couldn’t keep their fingers off the trigger.
  • About a quarter had fired a handgun a few times, but I’d call VERY novice.
  • Of the remainder they had either never fired a handgun but had some experience with other firearms, or had never fired a gun of any kind.
  • Plus there was one gal in there I’d guess a bit older than me (and I’m not that young) who looked to be a first-time shooter, shooting single-handed with her weak hand because her strong hand was in a cast.

My awesome trainer had a full job with that mixed a crew. I went to the end of the line for the range time so I could watch him work with different levels of students. Before he let people off the range, he brought every one of the newbies up to “safe and functional” but I really wouldn’t describe them as in the same category of knowledge, desire, or understanding of firearms as you. Some would not have been safe without his extra time and care, including a couple of the experience folk.

I think I’m ok with the practical shooting requirement, especially with a trainer who treats it with that kind of care. While it shouldn’t be true, for some folks it may be the only training they ever get.

I suppose some trainers don’t take that time or invest that effort so it doesn’t have much value … every profession has someone who graduates at the bottom of the class … but if we hold even a basic competency line I think it benefits a lot of folks.

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#8

I definitely get your argument or point for the training. I just don’t like more government in my gun safe than there already is.

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#9

And… I 100% agree with you on that too. :slight_smile:
Consider me officially conflicted.

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#10

Yeah. I’m there as well… about lots of things.

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#11

A drivers license isn’t given until you show you can operate a motor vehicle. Even more important to show you can handle a firearm and hit what you are aiming at. Delaware CCW classes require range time to prove proficiency. You don’t have to shoot one inch groups, just get all your rounds in the target. However, for open carry you just strap one on, which is not a good idea.

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#12

Here’s Illinois :point_down:, my personal opinion I think anyone who can lawfully carry should have the knowledge of shooting.

“Illinois CCW\CCL. Conceal Carry Permit Class. … Part B 8 hour session of the class will include learning IL CCW laws, live-fire at the range. In order to pass the shooting qualification you will shoot 10 rounds from a distance of 5 yards, 10 rounds from a distance of 7 yards, and 10 rounds from a distance of 10 yards.”

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#13

Devils advocate on this. You do not need a license to drive, you need a learners permit. Then, under supervision, you can drive on the roads. Yes, it is supervised, but, ultimately the “untrained” person is the one in control of a 2 ton implement of potential death. I agree, that more people should seek at least a minimum of professional training, but, we don’t license any other rights.

In Illinois, if you were born after 1-1-1980, you are required to take a hunters safety course to get a hunting license. All classroom, no shooting proficiency. Upon completion, you can legally, openly carry a far more powerful weapon than a pistol during the respective hunting season. If born before 12-31-1979, no safety course required. Just buy your license, tags, and hunting gear, then into the woods with a 12 gauge you go. I’ve seen cows shot as “big deer” by Chicago hunters.

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#14

Um… they don’t look that much alike…

The drivers license argument always gets me. Drivers licenses are not specifically called out in the Bill of Rights as the right to bear arms was… Apples and Oranges.

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#15

They don’t, but it has happened. These guys from Chicago come to Southern Illinois to hunt. I wouldn’t trust 3/4 of them with a potato gun.

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#16

the greatest oxymoron of all time…good government…and you propose determining ‘competency’ in the hands of unqualified amateurs? For every positive of government regulation/requirements, anyone can name at least 10 negatives…easily…forced regulatory mandates in quite a few states are used to circumvent basic civil rights and make the cost of ‘competency’ prohibitive to many…‘equal protection under the law’…does that ring a bell?

Not in this lifetime…effective training and practice is an inherent responsibility of each individual gun owner…

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#17

Yeah, near my second cousins farm 2 dudes from Chicago shot 2 horses during deer season like 20 or 25 years ago.

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#18

Years ago, there was an older gentleman that painted the word COW on his cows during deer season.

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#19

I’ve seen cows and horses spray painted blaze orange.

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#20

I really believe that the responsibility of carrying a gun, with the possibility it may one day have to be used, is serious enough to require at least some minimal training, knowledge, and ability. The sad part is that there are a lot of people out there carrying guns that have never had any training beyond the minimal amount (if any) required by the State. There are so many aspects to responsible gun use that require diligent and consistent work or the knowledge and skills will diminish over time. I honestly believe that thinking through various scenarios that can happen, and learning the best ways to react in those situations, including how to avoid them in the first place is one of the best dry fire exercises that can be done.

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