Martin, you can’t even put the parts together out of the box. They sell complete BUILD kits.
It is an uncompleted lower. It is not a functional firearm.
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I do believe this varies from state to state. AFAIK, most don’t but I do recall hearing that X or Y state required it, I’m thinking of maybe NJ, CA, etc. If your state requires registering an assault rifle that would be the case regardless of how you came into possession of it (build or buy).
Speaking only on AR15 builds… I could very well be wrong here, but I am fairly certain that’s just a marketing/sales thing.
A stripped lower requires a serial number (and hence FFL background check) because that hunk of aluminum is considered a “fully functioning firearm”. A completed lower is a stripped lower that has had trigger, safety, grip, stock/brace, etc already attached for you and also requires a serial number and FFL background check.
Stripped/Completed lower is totally different from an “80% lower” which is effectively a hunk of aluminum and is NOT considered a fully functional firearm. You can get these shipped to your door, no FFL background check needed because it is not a firearm. This is what the Polymer80 company sells is 80% lowers, but for pistols instead of ARs.
The pricing is different (and usually cheaper for you) the more disassembled it is. I have always heard there is a “completed firearm tax” when you buy a complete firearm vs parts, but I’m not sure if that’s just people being funny or if there is actually a tax paid by somebody along the way. Completed firearms (pre-COVID) were usually about $50-100 more expensive than if you bought the exact same parts and put them together yourself, even just an upper/lower where you mush them together and push in two pins…
I will give you the same advice I give family/friends cuz we’re all family here 
Nothing is guaranteed, but there is a high likelihood that existing firearms would be grandfathered in, and new purchases would be blocked if they do manage to put w/e form of gun control in.
So if you aren’t sure about getting an AR, just go buy a stripped lower between $50-100, it requires a background check but they are still (last time I looked) pretty available. If gun-control gets put in, and it’s grandfathered then you are good-to-go and you can finish the build later (or not, your choice but at least you have that choice). If gun-control gets put in, and it’s not grandfathered then you are only out what you paid for that stripped lower instead of $500-1000 for a complete AR.
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Thanks for the suggestion on the lower and you are probably right about it being a marketing gimmick.
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This is very upsetting but I remind everyone and anyone who doesn’t know Acts of Congress are not enforceable in the Fifty continuous States as per our U.S. Constitution.
I’m pretty sure the US Constitution says in Article 1 Section 9 “No Bill of Attainder or Ex Post Facto Law shall be passed.”
Meaning the government cannot pass a law making something that used to be legal retroactively illegal.
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@Nathan32
Thank you for reeling it in. You are correct. With current events I just don’t know where to trust what can or can not be done. If that makes sense
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Great perspective
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What he said.
One of their locations is 15 minutes away from me in Dayton,NV.
Awhile back I read an article on The Glock Store in CA is also having orders from Xavier Becerra to produce sales records of customers for Polymer80s and their own brand of 80% frames to the CADOJ.
If anyone is wondering how they are skirting the White House’s order to stop shenanigans… it is because they are not making any new rulings/decisions. What they are doing is saying everything needs to be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.
From Ammoland’s article, apparently they also raided several other retailers although only Brownell’s is named. I agree with The Daily Shooter and Ammoland’s conclusion that the ATF is compiling a list, a de facto registration list of people who have firearms.
People who bought 80% lowers almost assuredly have other firearms (why would you build an 80% as your first firearm?). The list of people who bought the kits probably also bought other stuff like a brace (see other ATF shenanigans) for when they eventually complete their build.
From the article:
This week ATF has shown up at multiple shooting-sports-related companies and retailer’s door to demanded customer information about those American citizens who legally purchased 80% pistol frames.
Brownells is the only retailer mentioned, and they sell Polymer80 frames, but not the specified Buy, Build, Shoot kits. So Brownell’s did not have to surrender any customer records.
Now they are saying that 80% frames and receivers “require case-by-case analysis that is dependent on the facts.” In other words, ATF continues to go out of its way to provide the industry with vague and ambiguous standards that no one can reasonably follow.
According to the documents, if an inspector sees a “Build, Buy, Shoot” kit on the shelf of a gun store, they are supposed to call the area supervisor so they can arrange for a special agent to respond… If a special agent finds the kit, they will decide “whether it is appropriate to begin a criminal investigation regarding that kit.”
Emphasis mine. “Case-by-case” is what the ATF is leveraging for all this, but it is also potentially the path that a lawsuit will take that would eventually stop them. You can’t have millions of citizens not know whether or not they are breaking the law. There is no other precedent for that type of “i know it when i see it” determination (other than pr0n)
AmmoLand News sources inside the ATF say that the agency is now considering 80% kits with all the parts needed to finish a pistol as a firearm
The ATF on conversations with Biden’s transition team said pistol braces and 80% was their biggest focus. They aren’t even waiting until Jan 20 because they know the current administration has no real way of halting them.
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I would also add… Everyone who said “I don’t care if the ATF takes bumpstocks because they are lame” should be slapping their forehead right now. That was the precedent that allowed the ATF to make up rules on the fly and enforce them to include you throwing your legally purchased property into a wood chipper without even the farce of a “buyback” in compensation.
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Could we replace the lower (stripped down) with the incomplete one? Just drill the holes to assemble it at minimum. And that way not have to give it up if there is ever a confiscation.
There is no federal law nor ATF regulation requiring a serial number on a firearm you manufactured for personal use. There is also no federal law nor ATF regulation requiring a serial number on said firearm if you later decide to sell it. It is illegal by federal law to be in the business of manufacturing and selling firearms without a license. I have a post from another thread with links to pertinent pages on the ATF website, here. It did take a bit of querying to find the appropriate information to post that the first time. The amount of false claims about personally built firearms and serial numbers and selling them made me do the research. I personally do not care whether or not someone builds a firearm and what they do with it afterwards, and neither should our government.
As to the discussion on SBRs and bump stocks, as several pointed out, that, too, is a non sequitur, as it really does not matter what type of grip, stock, barrel length a firearm has as to it being used in a crime. As addressed, murder, robbery, etc., are the crimes, the firearm is not the crime. Also, the ATF definition of what a pistol is, is interesting, here, as it does not mention length of barrel, nor anything else, other than grip must be below the bore, and the firearm is designed to be held in one hand. So that makes the whole argument about barrels, etc., moot.
One other interesting point on the silliness of ATF regulations pertains to cannons. I have a link to the pertinent ATF page for that, too, in the above link. A muzzle-loading cannon, built before 1898, or replicas, that I would believe no one would claim to not be capable of horrific destruction, is not classified by the ATF as a destructive device, but a breach-loading cannon, regardless of size (apparently), is a destructive device. One has to love government logic.
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It sounds like the government is declaring war on American businesses and potentially individual citizens.
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ATF apparently is already visiting purchasers of the BBS kits…
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Looks like they are testing the waters for door to door confiscation.
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Sounds like what happened in Nazi Germany, we should all say NO MORE together before it is to late.
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They should test the waters in Baltimore, Chicago, and LA just to start.
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More information on the warrant/subpeonas obtained for this raid.
From the article…
The ATF obtained the information about the customers from two sources that the agency subpoenaed. … Stamps.com turned over the shipping information of Polymer80 customers to the ATF when the agency served them the subpoena. Polymer80’s credit card processing company, Authorize.net, also turned over credit card information to the ATF.
Just make a note of how they figured out “who” had “what”.
The ATF then ran the customers through the FBI NCIC system to see if those who made purchases were prohibited from buying firearms. Customer records obtained by the ATF were for purchases made between January 1st, 2019 and June 4th, 2020.
I get it. And on the surface it’s a fair ask. But this doesn’t quite feel right. They are searching everyone to see if anyone is a felon, and that feels backward. I would rather they have had their list of restricted persons and said “did you sell to anyone on this list”. But I’m not sure that is a violation of something else.
One California man purchased $22,000 worth of Polymer80 products within two months. The ATF is assuming that the man in question is selling the guns on the black market.
Yeah, I think I’d come to the same conclusion.
The documents show that the ATF case against Polymer80 was built on circumstantial evidence. Many believe the real reason for the raid was to get more customer information. In our opinion Polymer 80 and their customer’s got ratted-out to ATF by Stamps.com and Authorize.net. Let this be a lesson to the firearms industry be careful who you do business with.
Don’t think I can disagree with that conclusion.
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So what will stop them from going tp sb tactical’s credit card companies and getting all the names of people who bought pistol braces
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