Polymer 80 raided

Legal & Second Amendment
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If we think some of these covid mandates are ridiculous. Haven’t seen anything yet when it comes to firearms.

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Tyranny at it’s best again, the ATF (legends in their own mind) making their own rules again, not following the law, lets defund the ATF.

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From my perspective, the 80% build kits have been a loophole that was going to be closed–it was just a matter of time.

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The part that is worrisome is just like the bump stock issue, we just keep sliding down the slope and that momentum is only going to get stronger.

They are taking away things that a small group of gun owners care about. If someone didn’t own a bump stock or thought they were dumb they didn’t care about the ban. The same seems to be happening with AR pistol braces and polymer 80’s.

The laws being created are only making more criminals and not stopping a single crime(under current laws) or violent act. Any laws created beyond what is already on the books will do nothing but create criminals or servants out of good lawbiding everyday people.

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If you have any interest in an AR/AK pistol, this is worth watching.

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Thank you for that link. Out respect for Dawn and the USCCA, I’ll keep my other remarks to myself

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Please explain how it is a loophole?

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There are no law that says you can’t build your own firearm . only that it cannot be sold a loophole selling a piece of polymer? Then should we shut down hardware stores because they have everything there to make a gun

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I don’t want to speak for @Aaron25, How I took the loophole comments was in similar context to what was going on in Colorado. When they banned “high” capacity magazines companies found a loophole in law and were able to sell magazine repair kits. Which had everything needed to make a restricted magazine a standard capacity magazine.

Not saying any of this makes sense because it’s all ridiculous. Just hoping clarify @Aaron25 comment

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My point is simple. While AR pistols and 80% builds have been technically ‘legal’, it seemed clear that these would be low hanging fruit for an antigun administration.
Loophole is an imprecise term used as I did.
Once the media got on board with ‘ghost gun’ language, i think it was just a matter of time until ATF focused on getting them made illegal.
The part that concerns me the most is the ambiguity of the language, and my guess that it’s that way intentionally.

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The ATF doesn’t follow the law during their rule making process, which is on their web site, they are like any other tyrannical federal agency, they make up their own rules, and and say it’s the law, do as I say, not as I do, if it’s not good for them, then it’s no good for the people.

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I would have to dig through the law but I thought there was a law stating all fire arms had to have a serial number. Reading the article on the raid the issue it appears they are raising is Polymer basically selling a complete kit without serial numbers.

I even remember seeing a post (maybe on here) where some one 3d printed a working revolver. He made it legal by registering it with a serial number.

As I have said with so many other things
I will reserve judgement until all the facts are presented. If Polymer was selling complete pistol kits without serials and not doing background checks
then it appears they broke the law. If they didn’t they should be able to prove it and get back in business.

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Ok i definitely agree and understand what you’re saying now

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Brother–thanks for not jumping to conclusions–well done, sir.

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And I don’t know that you can really ‘blame’ the ATF for their stance.
I am sure that their leadership spends much of their time answering to low information politicians based on lobbying from antigunners.
I don’t know how you could work there and be politically oriented. About every other election, your job would suck major suckage.

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Agree that the “low hanging fruit” will be “harvested” first. And then?

We are for now “technically legal” owning an AR-15 if purchased complete. And you can still buy a complete lower and upper and pair them up. Waiting for that right to go away ASAP, come the Biden administration. And after that the 15-round mag I use in my Beretta 92. And after that, the 7 round mag in my 45, along with the 45.

But a small sacrifice. We won’t exactly be “bothers in arms” anymore, but at least we’ll be livin’ the dream in the socialist workers paradise.

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They were not selling a completed lower.

They were selling an 80% lower (which ATF said was fine)

They were selling a parts kits (I’m not sure exactly what is in here, but if it’s like an AR15 parts kit it would be trigger, safety, springs, rails, etc) which is just “parts” and is not in any way shape or form restricted to buy/sell/own by ATF or any other agency.

Apparently, ATF objected to selling the 80% lower AND the parts kit as part of a “complete kit” called the “Buy Build Shoot Kit”. Contrary to the verbiage used by most of the media articles I’ve seen so far on the subject, it is not a finished lower which would require a serial number. Upon receipt of the kit, you still have to do your own “manufacturing” which involves drilling out the remaining 20% of the lower to fit the trigger assembly etc before it is considered a firearm.

So the ATF logic(?) appears to be you can sell Part A and Part B independently and it’s totally legal, but if you sell them together that’s a no-no.

There may be more to the story we’ll see as time goes on, but as it appears right now this is a disturbing trend. In the past few years anti-gunners have tried to pass laws saying just having “parts” of an “assault weapon” constitutes having an “assault weapon”. If ATF is allowed to say “parts” constitutes a firearm, we’re all in serious trouble.

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To be fair to ATF, the laws they have to enforce are some of the stupidest, vaguest, set of laws we possibly have. 13.5" LOP is a pistol, but 13.6" suddenly it’s a rifle? They have a huge amount of subjective decisions to make, so even under the best of intentions it’s going to cause a lot of frustration.

I don’t know about the local ATF branches, but the upper level bureaucrats are for sure left-leaning. And this isn’t the only agency. These folks have (likely, I’m not sure) been here since 2008 under Obama, and were not removed by Trump. Now Biden/Harris will be in place for another 4 years making their jobs secure for the foreseeable future, that will be a total of 16years of left-leaning influence.

I remember one of the interviews by either Q or SB Tactical (I think it was Q), they said before they moved they had no problems with their local ATF branch. They moved to a new state, under a new regional branch and that’s when they started having trouble with the ATF. So even local branches can have different views on the 2A although the same agency.

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Thanks.

Maybe I miss read the article but I thought the ATF was triggered because they were selling complete pistol kits.

And I do believe you can sell in pieces but not all together without the serial. I only say that because that is what several companies told me when I was looking into building an AR 15. Many sell a “complete” rifle kit but you still need to purchase the stripped or completed lower separately. One even implied that once I completed the rifle it would be up to me to register it.

Again I am not an FFL and on the serial piece just going off what I was told by dealers selling parts for an AR. I decided to hold off on the AR until I know what happens next month.

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