Untraceable Ghost Guns

Background checks wouldn’t have stopped the Santa Clarita, California shooting. The shooter used a DIY “ghost gun” in the high school shooting:

DIY gun kits and 3D printing guns are two ways that may make it easier for criminals to get untraceable firearms.

I’ve seen a law-abiding citizen 3D print an AR, but they purchased lower receiver* - which require a background check. It looked very much like this:

What do you think of untraceable guns?

EDIT: I initially misspoke and called it the trigger assembly.

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Zip guns are not traceable but then I don’t think you can trace gasoline and plastic bottles either.

My point is tracing is all about after the fact. Let’s get back to arming law abiding citizens so less crime is committed in the first place

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Why does it matter whether a gun can be traced or not unless you’re attempting to find a stolen gun?

Someone commits a murder and leaves the scene…the gun is not left behind to be traced, just shells and rounds. If a gun needs to be tied back to a crime it’s not serial numbers but the ballistics that do that.

Technically serial numbers would not be tied to any purchases (you know…since the BATF doesn’t track that…allegedly)

So what does it matter if a gun has a serial number or not or whether it can be “traced” or not (again except for attempting to track stolen property)?

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Buying a trigger for an AR15 does not require a background check. That is completely false.

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Not wanting to start an argument, just wanting to correct a misstatement.

The only part of an AR that requires a background check is the lower receiver.
Every other part is sold without any checks whatsoever.

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Why does a gun need to be ‘traced’? Not a lawyer, and thinking out loud here, but isn’t every item used in a crime traced by evidence left by the offender at the crime scene? The part that needs to be traced is the perp who used the gun to commit a crime! Not the genealogy of the gun…

If a chunk of ice is used in a crime, do we want to trace all H2O?

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It may be some states laws that require a background check for a trigger assembly. Thankfully there hasn’t been any movement on additional gun control in Michigan as of yet.

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I misspoke in my initial post - it was the lower receiver, not the trigger assembly! Thanks for the catch, @Joshua33.

I knew I had to do a background check for one of the pieces for my son when he was building his AR - I mistakenly thought it was the trigger assembly. He could have bought a fully built AR without me (he’s 19), but the lower receiver as a stand alone requires you to be 21 to buy.

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Because it can be made into a pistol or rifle, and pistol requires 21 years old to buy… I think that’s why.

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if you buy an 80% lower, it does not need registration. That’s the route most AR builders I know go.

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@mattm

If you buy that 80% lower, the jig for drilling the trigger assembly holes I’ve seen for $500.

Granted, more people than I can afford such a jig but maybe sometime next year, I could.

But I want to look more into the legality if such things. If I do build my own lowers with such a jig, just be for personal use to build myself inexpensive platforms for general use.

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I don’t mind any type of firearm… Untraceable guns or kits are ATF approved as long as it doesn’t fall over the 80% Law Standards. I’ve built an 2 .308’s custom and 2 AR’s 1 12.5 barrel and 16 inch barrel all custom MILL. It’s more of hobby than anything else. This society wants to blame any type of gun but it was made inside a home or a basement of a home. Maybe instead of forcing false flag maybe push a message about parenting in America…
In 2017 according to the CDC, Estimate 10,100 Deaths by the use of Motor Vehicles. People build oldest and even modern vehicles as a hobby. Should that render the fact its possible cars being customized have a strong chance of causing Motor Vehicle related Death to another Human Being???
Sounds dumber than bad joke…
This country ignores the fact about firearms that causes states to disarm citizens, An Armed society is a much safer society… No criminals have ever attacked a Police Station, Prison and anytime of Law Enforcement Agency ever in history… They only attack gun free zones and prey on the weak (DISARMED CITIZENS, GUN FREE ZONES)… In a matter of minutes will be out numbered…
I wonder why these Politicians, City Leaders, Government Officers, even anti-2A all push towards an agenda to disarm the population but GUARANTEED; Every single one of the Security Details Officers are well armed all have guns for self defense and Personal Protection. Because they all know there a fundamental truth behind personal protection. LIBERALS ORDER THEIR SECURITY DETAIL TEAMS TO GIVE UP THERE GUNS BUT EXPECT LAW BIDDING CITIZENS TO HAND OVER THEIR GUNS…

I think you mean anti-gun people DON’T order their security… (Missed a word and used a goofy :wink: word in there, @rwsisson) :smiley:

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So I have to go back to the roots of why things have serial numbers…

  • SNs often include manufacturing date/lot, or can be linked to manufacturing date/lot
  • SNs allow tracking of manufacturing issues, when there is a quality problem (to go back to a lot or a date and determine what other guns manufactured at the same time might have an issue, maybe do a recall)
  • SNs allow the manufacturer to notify the buyer if there is a problem with the manufacturing of the lot (recall) if the buyer has registered their purchase with the company

and IF there is registration:

  • SN can be used to track a firearm back to it’s owner.

There is NOTHING about serial numbers that can do any of the following:

  • prevent a mass shooting
  • prevent a murder
  • prevent an accidental shooting
  • prevent a suicide
  • match ballistics at a crime scene with a specific firearm or owner
  • prevent an unauthorized person from handling a firearm
  • prevent an unauthorized person from buying a firearm

So given that the above is true, having a gun with NO serial number only impacts the ability of a manufacturer to gather failure report data and perform recalls.

If the firearm is home-made, the person who made it isn’t going to be doing lot-quality data collection or issue recalls - so it totally doesn’t serve any purpose.

Correct me if I’m missing something here, but I’m not seeing the problem with “ghost guns.”

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Right… hahaha I can’t multiple task and don’t mind admitting it… Thanks for the back up lol :slight_smile:

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BOMB!!! When you speak I’m taking cover… hahaha! Don’t hurt em like that there, that was deeper than the Atlantic Ocean… Well Said indeed…

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Federal LAW says that it IS permissible for an individual to manufacture a firearm for their OWN PERSONAL use. They can’t sell it, can’t trade it, can’t give it away and I don’t even think they can pass it on. There is some debate about engraving a personally manufactured firearm but as far as LAW goes it is not required. In the case of AR-15 or AR-10 lowers you CANNOT add the extra cut out and hole for the Fun switch because you cannot legally manufacture a NFA weapon after 1986. I personally would not like to be in possession of an 80% lower jig and the appropriate M-16 trigger parts all in the same place as there is this thing called “intent”.

As @Zee points out, all the data that a serial number provides is maintained in the head of the owner.

Is it an “end around” of the system, Yes. Is it illegal, No. Will they get you in a world of Humm just on optics, Yuoooo betcha’. Am I thinking they are handy to have? To quote my favorite rabbit “Mmmmmm, Could beeee”

Cheers.

Craig6

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I agree with @Craig6. I posted an excerpt from the ATFE’s website with cites to the laws and regs. It is absolutely legal to build your own gun from scratch for yourself as long as it is not NFA restricted.

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If you read an article in MSM, understand that meaning of some words may be different from common sense. E.g. to me traceable means that a crime can be connected to the gun and its owner can be charged. SN connects a gun to the owner, for the purpose of, e.g., making a buyback offer you can’t refuse, but not in any sense that helps detectives.

Anyway, rifling=traceable, always. Striation marks, you know. Smooth bore -not traceable.

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The only illegal gun is a stolen gun. Serial numbers shouldn’t even be a thing, unless someone chooses to serialize their own guns for inventory purposes.

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