Philosophically speaking

With the raiding and subsequent customer visits by ATF, does anyone still believe “they aren’t coming for our guns”… or that they don’t (officially or unofficially) already have a registry? In my personal opinion, the ATF has for far too long gotten away with issuing “opinion”, enforcing it as law, all with out benefit of legislation… in other words, we had a big ol tea party about this once in Boston… taxation without representation… when are we going to wake up as a nation and smell the tea and crumpets…:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: the red coats are coming, will we be subjects, aka sheep, or will we be freemen should the revolution come knocking. This is a controversial subject, sadly, the way things are progressing both politically and civilly, one that really should be broached. I’m a believer in the 1A and 2A with out question. All opinions considered. Whether opposed or in agreement… something our founders jealously guarded and gave their lives for. This leads to a similar subject, covid 19, while no one thinks it’s a hoax, it is and has been used as a political vehicle for control of the masses. Prompting outrageous violations of the constitutional mandates. Will we continue to be sheep in that respect? Both subjects lead to a final outcome… that which our founders entrusted us with, freedom, and those whom our founders warned us about, tyrants, are in our faces… how will you respond?

5 Likes

Cocked, locked and ready to rock.

1 Like

24/7 brother.:handshake::heart::us:

1 Like

ALL gun laws restricting us are unconstitutional.

5 Likes

I’m of the same opinion. With over 22k on the books, I doubt very much they’ll ever get it right or be satisfied until they have them all taken…

I’m so going to “culturally appropriate”!:rofl::joy::+1:

1 Like

So what should you do if the ATF comes to your door knocking with or without a warrant for your guns, P80 or not?

When and where do we all Constitutionalists, freedom lovers, Republicans, get together and have an in person meeting on what should we do?

I say Constitutionalist because at this point no matter the political party if you support the Constitution you are a Constitutionalist.

2 Likes

Well wherever we meet can it be someplace warm…

4 Likes

Guns n gadgets has good info on it among other notables as to the P80 issue, either way they aren’t getting in with out a warrant. Nor should you let them. If they show up, make them walk the line legally, and don’t speak with them like they’re the good ol boys… they aren’t. Observe your 5A rights and call your attorney if they want to arrest you. Importantly, do not sign a forfeiture and destruction form. Jared speaks of the forms not to sign, and what to sign. And they are after the poly frame specifically I’m hearing so separate that from the stuff you added yourself. I haven’t got one myself so Ive got no dog in the P80 game. If you’ve networked among your neighbors like we all should, get your neighbors out to observe and document their actions. Criminals hate being exposed. Make them as uncomfortable as you can, because they have no issues making you uncomfortable.

2 Likes

Where can I find video on the paperwork not to sign and to sign

1 Like

Found a blog written by a lawyer Joshua Prince, esq.

Original article

If you don’t want to click the link

As many in the Firearms Community are aware, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) raided Polymer80, Inc last week and since then, there is at least one report of a customer being visited by ATF and forced to surrender their “P80.” Given what appears to be ATF’s active enforcement of its interpretive jiggery-pokery, ever changing interpretations of the Gun Control Act and implementing regulations, it is important that any individual confronted by ATF regarding this newly minted interpretation, advise the agent that he/she is surrendering the items under protest , that you do not consent to the forfeiture or destruction of your property, and that you require a property receipt from ATF. Be aware that the agent may attempt to have you sign an ATF 3400.1 Form – Consent to Forfeiture or Destruction of Property and Waiver of Notice – which you should NOT sign under ANY circumstance . In the event that they ask you to sign an ATF 3400.1, inform them that the only ATF form you are willing to sign is an ATF 3400.23 – Receipt of Property and Other Items, as the ATF 3400.23 does not contain language, wherein you agree to the forfeiture/destruction of your property.

You should also attempt to take photos of your items, so you can prove the condition they were in when taken by ATF, as well as, find any receipts or other information relative to your purchase of the items. It would also be prudent to separately document your experience of the encounter in writing – such as the location, date, and time of your interaction with the ATF agent(s), the names or other identifying information (ID #, contact number, business card, etc. ) of all ATF agents or persons you spoke with, the details of all discussions, and any other information they told or provided you. You should also demand a copy of the executed ATF 3400.23. If they tell you that they’ll mail you a copy, in addition to requesting that they do, you should take a photo of the executed form with your phone. After compiling all these documents and information, you should place them in a safe place.

So that there can be no misunderstanding on ATF’s part, I would strongly recommend sending a letter, consistent with the below, to the ATF Agent that took your item(s), because, in the event ATF elects to institute a forfeiture action, they are required to serve you with a copy and in that event, you should immediately contact an attorney, if you wish to challenge ATF’s ability to forfeit your property.

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Dear Agent :

As I informed you on when you took my (hereinafter “items”), I surrendered them under protest as I understand ATF contends that my continued possession of those items would result in my arrest and prosecution. As I dispute ATF’s contention and authority in this matter, I am only surrendering my items to preclude my arrest and prosecution. I do not consent to the destruction of my items nor do I consent to forfeiture of my items. I assert all of my rights pursuant to the U.S. Constitution and all applicable federal laws.

In the event ATF’s newly minted interpretation is enjoined or is deemed unlawful by a court of law, I expect ATF to immediately return my items, at no cost to me, and expect that ATF will not cause any damage or harm to them, while in its possession.

Thanking you for you time and assistance in this matter, I am

Yours Truly,

2 Likes

Please remember the intent of the Community is to help everyone learn how to best protect themselves and their loved ones.

We know the current situation is very stressful, however, we have to keep this Community focused on our mission to educate people on firearms, training, and self-defense.

1 Like

I appreciate what you’re saying.

4 Likes

We support the Second Amendment rights, @KillJoy. The purpose of the Community is to help educate and train responsibly armed Americans how to best protect themselves and their families.

We have a set of Community Guidelines to help us keep the conversations focused on those topics. While some parallel topic conversations are allowed, they must adhere to the Community Guidelines.

1 Like

Exactly my response.

2 Likes

@KillJoy, the USCCA supports the Second Amendment and continues to educate and train people on how to protect themselves and their loved ones.

The Moderators are here to help keep threads on topic and ensure the Community Guidelines are adhered to.

As this thread has gone off-topic it is now closed.

1 Like