New member , troubles w/ ccw

I was wondering if anyone offer any advice. I went for my ccw interview Wednesday, sheriff went over my paperwork , passed it on to the next one who was going to interview me, took my money orders, interview went well, fingerprinted, took picture.

I get a call from them 2hrs later, they forgot to give me back my documents,( bc,property tax) then they say we also noticed something. your birth certificate says pablo but all your other docs say paul. I said I never used pablo , they said we can’t move forward.

My question is , my real Id licence says paul, my social security says paul, my gun license says Paul, my fishing license says paul, not mention I have bought 5 guns and ammo under Paul. so is there anything I can do ?

I have to go pick up my docs from them and I’m hoping to try and talk to someone else. Ohh and they wont give me my money back… so I’m kinda thinking of telling them , I paid for the background and fingerprinting so run it and see what happens?
Btw . From southern cal . San bernardino county

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@Paul483 Welcome to the community. Looks like Sheriff Dept. being nitty-gritty about your name, Paul/Pablo, English/Spanish What’s the difference, BUT it’s about ID Compliance, name has to match what’s on your Birth Certificate. Same issues were going on in NM. If you graduated High School where you’re at, and went by Paul, go to you school office or administrative office to get your file copies showing you went by Paul. Take your Birth Certificate, school record, driver license, ssn card to Vital Statistics Records in your area to explain your situation and see if they can convert Pablo to Paul with a new Birth Certificate. They will instruct you whether they can OR you may have to see a Judge to issue a change granted then take the court order to Vital Records. I think it can be done. It’s worth a try, it’s your Identity. Good luck.

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Not on my CC but in other things, I have run into the Mike/Michael thing.

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They usually have a place for aliases and if your birth certificate has you as Pablo then you should put that as your name and put Paul as an alias because technically it is.

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Welcome @Paul483!

Unless you legally changed your name and can bring paperwork to prove it, you need to use what’s on your birth certificate.

You said they can’t go forward. Is that because they won’t allow you to change the CCW application to Pablo? Or because you want them to process it as Paul?

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What about all these “transgendered” people? I doubt they are being denied due to “Bob” is now “Sue”… maybe that is why, sue… :sunglasses:

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Bc says pablo , drivers license says paul. I guess because unmatched .

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@Dave17 That’s right, I wonder how it goes for them. “Hi, my name is SUE how do you do.” :laughing:

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Check with an attorney. You know what they say about opinions.

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I ended up going round & round with state of Illinois over my middle name on a Real ID.
Finally had to show them the name change affidavit from my 1965 Navy enlistment papers.
The Recruiter raised hell with me at the time because it was not on the birth certificate. Worst case scenario you go to court to straighten it out!

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Nothing is easy in so. cal. Perhaps telling sheriff to use a Spanish dictionary, he should really know Paul is English for Pablo.
.

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I always use my full legal name as it appears on my birth certificate for any official documents even though I prefer to go with a shortened version in daily life and don’t really like the long version. If people used a variety of names on official documentation I could see it being difficult to figure out who is who and who owns what etc.

If you want to use a variation of your name on official documentation that differs from what appears on your birth certificate the best bet is probably to legally change your name to whatever you prefer.

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He only used an anglized version of his name, not multiple names. Second, the government is not supposed to know “who owns what”.

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People need to know who owns what when transferring property to one another. The government often tracks that ownership for tax purposes and to resolve conflicting ownership disputes. Using alternate spellings or versions that don’t match what is recognized as a person’s legal name can lead to misidentifications, confusion, fraud and other problems. Look into the story of the person who wrote the fake autobiography of Howard Hughes and how he was able to get the publisher to make out the checks to H. R. Hughes instead of Howard which allowed his accomplice to cash the checks in a Swiss account.

I could see an insurance company refusing to pay a family if the person’s name on the policy does not match the legal name on their birth certificate. And even more problems if the name on the birth certificate, policy and death certificate don’t all match and their are multiple different versions of the name on multiple different identifying documents. At the very least it would delay the payout as the insurance company investigated to ensure they are paying the actual policy holder’s family.

Many legal documents state that you must use your full legal name. But that is usually assumed on all official documents. Some require that you also provide the “aliases” you have used in the past. There is no problem using alternate spellings, versions or nicknames in daily life. But as @Paul483 is finding out, it can create issues with official legal, business and property matters when things don’t match up.

Legally “Paul” doesn’t exist because his parents chose to put the Spanish spelling of his name on his birth certificate. He has the legal right to change his name or the spelling to pretty much whatever he wants. There is a legal process for doing that and I don’t think it is very difficult to do. But it is necessary to avoid problems like this in the future. I’m kinda surprised this is the first time he has encountered this problem.

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Probably because other people had the ability to understand that Pablo and Paul are the same person and if everythig else was in order, it doesn’t really matter.

Yes, I am aware of that. However, this is about one document and Pablo is Paul. I have seen numerous misspellings of my name on legal documents and I have never had an issue - even when traveling abroad and my air ticket had my name misspelled - different than my passport. The person realized it was misspelled and that it was me and just noted that it was misspelled.

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I think there is a difference between an accidental misspelling and an intentional change in spelling. And while I work with and hang out with enough Latino people to know that Pablo and Paul are different versions of the same name I suspect there are plenty of people out there that can’t make that connection. When I travel in Central America I don’t change my name to the Spanish version. But I am reasonably content with the shortened version of my legally given name and don’t have a problem signing the legal longer version on official documents. If I decided that I really did not want to use my legal name anymore I would officially change it.

I believe it is legally irrelevant if the names mean the same thing since the spellings are intentionally different. Maybe a lawyer can chime in?

In terms of how all this relates to Paul having his CCW delayed and 2A rights violated, the obvious answer is to implement nationwide constitutional carry. The sheriffs department shouldn’t be allowed to deny the right in the first place unless a person (need to make sure you are identifying the right person;) has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be a threat to society.

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@Dave17 @Shamrock , ive never had a issue , but my biggest issue here is…all of a sudden it is a problem, after the fact that they have cleared me for multiple gun purchases, multiple ammo purchases and even my gun license itself. It runs through the same agency that clears me for the gun purchases… and idk if it matters, but i recently cleared a Department of Homeland security back ground check because I worked the superbowl and had to furnish the same docs and my Ss card.

And also when you run a social number all the names that are have been used with that number come up .

Now that im a member im definitely gonna tap into their legal network here. I still haven’t picked up my docs, i wasted a trip , cause the office was closed for power outage… im hoping to talk to try and talk with them more and get more clarity on their reasoning.

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I would definitely ask them why your documentation is good enough for DHS but not for them. I might be leery of mentioning the part about you being able to purchase firearms and ammo with the same documentation. They might choose to infringe on those activities as well.

Unfortunately CA is an anti self defense state so they will usually look for any excuse to deny a person their right to defend themselves and others. Though I believe San Bernardino is less restrictive than other counties. Sounds like whoever looked at your paperwork this time decided to use the inconsistencies in your documentation as a convenient excuse. Or maybe the inconsistencies raised a red flag due to similarities with another person listed on a restricted list. The main purpose of the original background check laws for firearm purchases was to deny as many minorities as possible simply because their name was similar to a prohibited persons.

Most CA politicians seem to believe there is no bigger threat to society than a law abiding legally armed person so they are likely holding CCW applicants to the pickiest standards they can come up with in order to deny as many people as possible.

Good luck working through this issue. I hope you are able to exercise your rights soon!

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@Paul483
Welcome to the family brother and God bless you. It does not surprise me that it is a CA. Sheriffs Dept. I pray it works out for you because it is a petty excuse for them not issuing you a ccw permit.

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Happy anniversary brother @Todd30. God bless you and stay humble.

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