Is that “Tactical Beach Sand”?
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I guess I could see a biased LEO or uneducated juror being negatively impacted by the image of a violent criminal laying on the ground with a bunch of slice and stab wounds after being stopped by a justified self defender. It will likely take more strikes with a knife to stop a determined attacker than shots with a firearm and the results might look gorier than several gunshot wounds. But a reasonable investigator should be looking at all the circumstances involved. All self defense situations are murky until all the facts can be put together.
Based on my reading of the USCCA self defense policy, they will cover justified self defense actions regardless of the weapon used. A good lawyer along with expert witnesses should be able to explain why you did what you did to keep from being killed or seriously injured.
Using firearms for self defense is every bit as much of a martial art as using knives or other weapons. I just don’t get the relevance there. Either you have trained to use the self defense tools you have available or you just do the best you can with whatever you can get your hands on and hope you get lu cky.
Most attackers are going to wait till they have the element of surprise. No one can be 100% observant 100% of the time and there are lots of situations where you can’t keep people far enough away to guarantee you have time to draw a firearm. You just can’t go around ordering everyone to stay 20 or 30 feet away from you.
I have had very limited instruction and practice on defensive knife use but if all I can get to is a knife when faced with an imminent threat, I’m not going to not reach for it just because someone may judge me negatively.
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Hello and welcome @John1556
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@John1556 Welcome to the community!
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Pretty much.
As long as the weapon is possessed legally under federal law, as that is the only stipulation/exclusion regarding the tool/weapon/firearm that is used.
There are other factors and other possible exclusions but, as for what kind of weapon was used…was it possessed legally under federal law? Yes? Okay then good to go
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I see this basic statement pretty often, but…I don’t understand it.
Pretty much everywhere I go, people get within 20-ish feet of me. Which is all the closer they need to be in order to rush in and make contact more quickly than a firearm can be drawn from concealment. And that’s when you start drawing the moment they move.
Gas station, grocery store, restaurant, Home Depot, gas station, sidewalk or parking lot in front of those places…the gun store counter…how can you keep people from getting close to you?
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Have you, by any chance, read the book “Left Of Bang”? I recommend it to my students because it discusses this very topic, in depth.
I will not be commenting further on this subject, in deference to the USCCA Instructor Code Of Conduct.
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Does walking down a Los Angeles street during the Rodney King riots not count?
Enzo, you have always projected the classic signs of a “wannabe”. Just how tough do you have to talk to feel like people with common sense will actually listen?
Now tell us about USCCA Insurance when you have been charged with a crime…
My “fantasy world” was where D.A.s are not immediately involved as they are on the East Coast. You should be more careful about stating what I “sound like” from such a narrow perspective.
Daniel Penny’s situation indeed occurred on the East Coast, and you presume New York is the real world with the likes of Adams, Bragg, and James conducting the orchestra?
It’s not.
Thank you.
A responsible person should understand that quite often the best defensive weapons are a good pair of running shoes…
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That would be self preservation, not self defense.
You can’t outrun a bullet.
And if the fight is already upon you, how do you find the time to turn tail and flee?
You have to do it by fighting!
If I’m in a GFZ I’m generally still allowed to have my folding knife. If my knife is my only choice, it will be what I use.
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I completely agree. Though I cannot run as fast as I used to and my wife and young son run even slower than I can. Avoiding and fleeing are my first options. But I want to be as ready as possible for circumstances where those are not viable options.
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Explains a lot. You were a cop in an area where law abiding citizens are treated like criminals and criminals are pandered too, just like NY. My statement of what you sound like was 100% based on your words, whether it was a narrow perspective or not. Being california based i call into question even more your “perception of the scene” statement, when was the last time a defensive shooting in commiefornia wasnt politicized as antifirearm in absolutly every sense imaginable? Where theyve tried to criminalize even purchasing ammunition online. Im in a stand your ground state, and i have no duty to “run away”. I have a right to be here and unmolested. This cowardly “run away” nonsense is exactly what has emboldened the criminal element to think their actions dont have consequences. A Responsible person doesnt enable and embolden criminal activity through cowardice
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this may be, but you gotta have a good pair of running legs with these.
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What is your definition of the aforementioned? Most of us here just carry pocket knives and maybe some type of sheath knife(s). There is one that really likes Karambits. I carry two pocket knives as tools - both are finger flippers, no springs or anything. The worst I typically do with them is open boxes and trim threads, etc. When walking trails/hiking, I also typically carry a large Bowie knife in a sheath.
When traveling, I am frequently unable to carry a handgun, but knives are still typically legal, even in the UK. I got a UK-compliant pocket knife for the last time I went. I only opened a few packages, etc., with it.
Twice while traveling I had encounters at night where having the pocket knife unopened, covered by my hand, and blading my body was enough. I was just asked what I had in my hand, as they could not see my hand - hidden by my body. Stating it was a knife was enough for them to remember they had an appointment to go to that they forgot about.
I am just an average, older guy, average build, and definitely not seeking to fight nor hurt anyone, but I will defend myself if there is no other choice (avoid/flee first option, if available). The best won fight is one you don’t have. I believe my situational awareness has enabled me to avoid many bad encounters while traveling, but on those rare couple of times, that was not enough.
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PLEASE don’t ever say or think that again. These days you cannot count on just a beat down.
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I am getting incredibly tired of some people telling me what to do ,
what to use (for self D), how to do it and sadly how much MY Experience(s)
and knowledge don’t matter because THEY were this or they were that.
What really roasts my cookies is some people telling my Brothers and Sisters here
(without KNOWING them either) how little their experiences don’t matter and
calling these Highly experienced people names like we are on the playground in the
(7th) grade once again. It’s CHILDISH! and It’s ARROGANT to think just because you ‘say’
you did this or that, that YOU people are the only one’s who know their way around a Gun
or Self Defense situation. two examples are a Veteran Submariner ! and USCCA Defensive Shooting Instructor! For God’s sake man! are there two more people who have been there done/doing that
that you SHOULD LISTEN TOO?. Has YOUR Experiences TRUMPED that? I highly doubt that!
For starters we have a snarky failed Politico and an ex-LAPD officer. You would think they
would be able to handle a discussion better than this! Except they revert to Negative comments and
arrogance TELLING US ALL HOW IF WE DID THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THEY SAY WE WILL GO
TO JAIL OR Never leave the Couch! Potato heads!
I want Newbie’s and Gunner’s trying to learn more to see how the Experience in this room can HELP them get the knowledge for them and their families to STAY ALIVE ! This isn’t a Don102 show or a
Officer ‘Krupky’ forum. It is suppose to be Gunner’s Helping Gunner’s. I have learned so much here in just a short year that my chances for survival have grown exponentially! And I hope my posts haven’t been filled w/ ‘you better do this or do that or you’re dead Bullshite!’ (or in jail)
Lastly, I want to say (from Experience) YOU HAVE ONE CHANCE IN A GUNFIGHT TO GET IT RIGHT!
you usually don’t get a second. TRAIN like your life depends on it because it surely does. Whatever it
takes to WIN and be alive to tell the tale that is a successful fight. The old adage of ‘I’d rather be Judged by (12) than carried out by (6) Totally phuckin’ applies to life and Gunfights.
Whatever is at your disposal at the time USE IT! If you get disarmed and you have your knife, or you get knocked down and Behold there is a rock, cinderblock, piece of metal use it! Whatever it takes. And please don’t think you need to sustain damage from an attacker before you fight back. All you need is one connected punch, One stick of a knife and the fight is over and you can get very dead. If you have ‘running shoes’ on and you can escape and evade? do it. The best Gunfight is the one you never have.
(Clint Smith-Thunder Ranch) but chances are MOST of the time they won’t be standing there saying ‘Look at the boy run!’ It soooo easy to say this stuff but if you have the unfortunate position of being 'In the wrong place at the wrong time you better phucking fight like you are the Third Monkey getting on the ARK! Don’t expect John or Joan Q Public or the Calvary to come to the rescue anymore. I know that’s scary and I’m sorry, believe me I am. But TRAIN UP FOLKS! YOU are your own First Responder !
The Police will be there to clean up the mess later. Be alive to tell them thanks for showing up!.
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I apologize that I used a facetious metaphor to describe the importance of staying Left of Bang". But I am pretty sure the gentlemen to whom it was addressed understood I was agreeing regarding conflict avoidance.
I am somewhat flummoxed that you and several others are seemingly ignorant to the training most police officers receive here in the U.S. Academy and field training notwithstanding, we received self defense / survival training bi-monthly including a ton of mental preparation including overcoming fatigue.
I am glad that you have the outlook that you have, but I am concerned that you and many others here aren’t prioritizing conflict avoidance.
Just so you know, I had five people try to kill me over my 22 year career. I did what was appropriate and I am still here.
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Matt, you are actually trying to say I treated law abiding citizens like criminals. I don’t even need to address the rest of the crap you posted based on that nonsense alone. Besides, you have a flaw in your reading comprehension skills.
The recommendation made by Alan of the book “Left of Bang” would especially serve you.
Interesting post wherein you do exactly what you preach against. Did I EVER say I was LAPD? Nope. I said I was on the L.A. streets during the Rodney King riots. Since you have made an uninformed opinion about me, I will clarify that I was deployed as “Mutual Aid”.
Nevertheless, you too seemed to have missed the point of my response to Alan regarding “Left of Bang”, but then you validated it with your comment, “The best Gunfight is the one you never have.”
So perhaps in the end we are not that far off from one another’s position?
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