Knives are a "no-no"

I have mentioned it before, but having just received my February/March issue of Concealed Carry magazine I am concerned that the emphasis on knives in ads and articles is unacceptable to the Concealed Carry community.
I certainly am not directing my concern at carrying knives as tools, but rather carrying knives as weapons.

As a (retired) Detective, I can assure you that if you use an edged weapon for self defense, you will have a ton of splainin’ to do. I would also caution that your USCCA insurance is probably not going to help either.

Let me explain. As found on page 114, Martial Arts expert Michael Janich gives categorical training tips in the carry, drawing, and use of edged weapons.
The point here is these are indeed “Martial Arts” weapons. Here is the definition of this significant word;

mar·tial

/ˈmärSHəl/

adjective

  1. of or appropriate to war; [warlike]

It’s good to know this, because it will be heard early and often in your trial should you stab someone with a specialized “self defense” edged weapon.

We have discussed training with a firearm as our God-given right to self defense. Yet, using a knife becomes murky and suspicious … somewhere between training for self defense and preparing for war on the streets.

One of the important factors in self defense is if you could have / should have avoided the confrontation. The layman’s firearm training will always consider if you thought you had to shoot to protect yourself or someone else. That’s a steeper hill to climb with a specialized edged weapon.

It is best to stick to a firearm, and leave the Martial Arts stuff in the dojo. Remember guys like Janich are businessmen. They seek to sell class memberships and these implements. I am sure they also teach confrontation avoidance first and foremost, but the ads and brief articles don’t reflect this and should be viewed as profit drivers.

Stay safe and operate under the appropriate umbrellas.

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RE: USCCA membership benefits, as members have access to self defense liability insurance, that could come into play for self defense with a knife. High level what comes to mind for me here is that knives are pretty universally considered lethal force, so, lethal force would need to be justified for it to be a lawful act of self defense. Lethal force is a high threshold, just see discussions about using a firearm (imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death, generally).

It does seem that self defense cases with knives are not particularly common, but, they certainly happen.

Personally I carry a knife as a tool. I recognize that if desperate times arise, I could press it into service in defense. For lethal force level scenarios.

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And you’re telling us here, why? Did you contact USCCA? Are you from England?

Now you sound like the AR bashers.
We all have opinion’s…
Not sure I get your point?

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RE: Martial Arts

My grade school kids are in martial arts. What they are doing doesn’t seem to have a lot to do with war.

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In WI. I can openly carry a large sheath knife. :+1:
In WI. we have Martial Arts training centers openly teaching on Main Street with Swords
and Knives openly displayed in the window. :scream:

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Wow! that is a ton of nonsense…

The insurance benefit will cover a member for ANY act of self defense with ANY weapon they are allowed to possess under Federal Law.

That ABSOLUTELY covers knives! And hands, and feet, and trash cans, and dumbbells, and fire pokers, and baseball bats, and tire irons and crowbars….

Lord I love “experts” that make BS assertions based on “credentials”………

If ANYONE here has a question about coverage call the USCCA. They are the ONLY source for correct information.

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Yep, the same response as always.

Go for it guys. Carry those bad ass knives, stab someone, and I guarantee you will go to jail and have to prove it was self defense, and not a criminal act.
You will also have to fight to be covered by USCCA.

Meanwhile, shoot someone in self defense and if the scene speaks to it, most Detectives will guide the case in that direction.

But what do I know, it was only what I did for 22 years.

I think what @Steven288 is trying to imply is when it comes to self defense if one doesn’t know how to use a knife don’t count on it for self defense. It is not being responsibly armed. Even if one does manage to defend oneself it doesn’t look good in court. Same as if one was carrying some fancy gun that isn’t reliable.

Why… why would I, a law-abiding citizen, peace-loving, fully employed father of two,
“Go for it… and stab someone?”

Context matters.

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what fantasy state were you a detective in where people who discharge a firearm in self-defense don’t automatically get to take a trip downtown until the DA and “investigators” decide one way or the other to press charges, regardless of “what the scene speaks to”? You sound like a detective with preconceived notions about crime scenes before actually “investigating” them. Thats the way your post comes off at any rate. I’m sure Daniel Penny would like to know, considering “what the scene” and eyewitnesses, and video evidence say to the contrary, and he did not even use a weapon.

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Yep, same response because you are wrong, and maybe you are the only one who thinks otherwise.

I don’t care how long you did anything, and you’re just a keyboard on the internet. And even if you were what you say you were, my dad (an brilliant MD) told me long ago, “You know what you call the dumbest guy who graduated last in his class from a third world Medical School? Doctor…”. Credentials mean nothing when you say silly stuff.

So yes, the same response because it’s correct. Your statement somehow certifies that use of a knife will land you in jail and I stand by what I said. That’s absolute nonsense. But hey if someone attacks any of us that believes your assertion, and all they have is their “bad ass” knife with them, they should just let them kill them so I can abide by your advice and avoid jail…

BTW, are you a USCCA Member? Have you read the insurance policy? Do you have a license in P&C?
I’m a yes to all 3. :+1:

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Nope, he’s implying nothing. What he SAID is that if you use a knife to defend yourself he “guarantees” you’re going to jail and the USCCA insurance won’t cover you. Those are clear assertions. And a woefully wrong and arrogant ones at that.

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So you’re telling me that if I want to go to the mall (where firearms aren’t allowed), if i don’t have a firearm, i can’t defend myself? Seems legit :thinking:… what I get is knives are weapons of martial arts and can’t be used for defense. Therefore, by relation, martial arts can’t be used for self defense either. Fighting in one form or another has been used in every conflict in the history of man, so since fighting is the art of war, it can’t be used either. We are continuously being told that our 2a rights are being assaulted more and more… More places we can’t carry… In those places should we just lay down and die because it’s “illegal” to carry a firearm?

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I did detect a hint of purpose full deception. He is telling the truth and trying to make it sound like something else. What he is saying he thinks no one will think it is legitimate. I am not saying everyone who is arguing with him is not legitimate, it is everyone is arguing about something different. Just my take.

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While this could be a cutting edge issue (pun intended) for some, it is probably moot for most. Most people are not Michael Janich with decades of martial arts experience, and ample strength to consider using an edge weapon as primary means of defense. For most people reaching for the knife means the firearm has failed to stop the baddies, and they are angry and at arm’s length – i.e., going to be a choice between certain death and probable jail. What would you choose?

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I get what you’re saying. I can see how when using a knife, it might be more difficult to prove what. That said, if someone is attacking you, use what you got. As far as training, or the lack of…on any given day, i have no doubt that there’s thousands of Americans walking around with a firearm that have zero formal training concerning firarms. Let’s not limit someone’s rights to self defense due to training… that’s where conditions to God given rights come from. Personally, I don’t care how it looks, as long as I’m still alive, was justified, and proven so.

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If you’re going to try and use a knife as a self-defense tool, it will by definition require you to come within arm’s reach of your attacker. Most defensive engagements with firearms are already within bad-breath distance, but now someone wants to close even more and smell their attacker’s armpits too? How will that go over with the detectives and the prosecutors?

That doesn’t even consider the extra training involved; knife fighting is VERY fast and VERY dirty and there aren’t any time-outs or do-overs. It’s got to be right every time or it’ll be over before anyone knows what happened.

If I’ve let my guard down enough for someone to get close enough to stick me, I’ve failed to maintain adequate situational awareness…something every weapons instructor should be teaching every student at every level. Ask a couple of (as I recall) NYPD cops that let one perp stick both of them before they even got their hands on their sidearms. The video popped on YouTube about a month ago; it should be easily searchable, and it will make a GREAT classroom video in what not to do.

Go ahead and use that knife if you feel like it. Just be ready to do LOTS of explaining…while you’re in jail…if you survive.

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Put on your life vests n floaties guys, heeeere comes the tidal wave of opinions! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Self defense is self defense. Deadly force is deadly force. It’s the circumstances and decisions that have to be right. Not the method that’s the issue, unless you use a prohibited weapon like a hand grenade, THEN you have some “splainin” to do as Ricky Ricardo used to say.

I agree with you, many Americans go happily by every day carrying a gun, thinking they are effectively armed. As it was so well put sometime ago, buying a gun does not make you a shooter anymore than buying a guitar makes you a musician.

But, at least it gives them a slightly better chance at a successful defense. Same with a knife.

You don’t need to be Eddie Van Halen with a blade. Many musicians have made successful careers playing 3-4 chords. I asked a good friend who’s HIGHLY trained in knife fighting in several disciplines how a civilian could get started. He said, “Buy a copy of Greys Anatomy, learn where all the essential gushy parts in the human body are, cut there.”

I can deploy my knife and cut decisively and terminally much faster than I can get a gun out of concealment and squeeze an accurate first shot. Anyone can…. I have proven it over and over again to folks I train. If I’m standing right next to a bad guy that reaches for a concealed gun, It’ll be my knife they’ll probably meet first, especially if I’m in a place where I can’t carry a gun.

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I don’t see any problem with knives. I enjoy the ads. I carry a knife on me all the time. They are handy as a tool and as protection if the firearm is inoperable.

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