Knives are a "no-no"

Self-Defense
1

I have mentioned it before, but having just received my February/March issue of Concealed Carry magazine I am concerned that the emphasis on knives in ads and articles is unacceptable to the Concealed Carry community.
I certainly am not directing my concern at carrying knives as tools, but rather carrying knives as weapons.

As a (retired) Detective, I can assure you that if you use an edged weapon for self defense, you will have a ton of splainin’ to do. I would also caution that your USCCA insurance is probably not going to help either.

Let me explain. As found on page 114, Martial Arts expert Michael Janich gives categorical training tips in the carry, drawing, and use of edged weapons.
The point here is these are indeed “Martial Arts” weapons. Here is the definition of this significant word;

mar·tial

/ˈmärSHəl/

adjective

  1. of or appropriate to war; [warlike]

It’s good to know this, because it will be heard early and often in your trial should you stab someone with a specialized “self defense” edged weapon.

We have discussed training with a firearm as our God-given right to self defense. Yet, using a knife becomes murky and suspicious … somewhere between training for self defense and preparing for war on the streets.

One of the important factors in self defense is if you could have / should have avoided the confrontation. The layman’s firearm training will always consider if you thought you had to shoot to protect yourself or someone else. That’s a steeper hill to climb with a specialized edged weapon.

It is best to stick to a firearm, and leave the Martial Arts stuff in the dojo. Remember guys like Janich are businessmen. They seek to sell class memberships and these implements. I am sure they also teach confrontation avoidance first and foremost, but the ads and brief articles don’t reflect this and should be viewed as profit drivers.

Stay safe and operate under the appropriate umbrellas.

3 Likes
2

RE: USCCA membership benefits, as members have access to self defense liability insurance, that could come into play for self defense with a knife. High level what comes to mind for me here is that knives are pretty universally considered lethal force, so, lethal force would need to be justified for it to be a lawful act of self defense. Lethal force is a high threshold, just see discussions about using a firearm (imminent threat of serious bodily harm or death, generally).

It does seem that self defense cases with knives are not particularly common, but, they certainly happen.

Personally I carry a knife as a tool. I recognize that if desperate times arise, I could press it into service in defense. For lethal force level scenarios.

10 Likes
3

And you’re telling us here, why? Did you contact USCCA? Are you from England?

Now you sound like the AR bashers.
We all have opinion’s…
Not sure I get your point?

3 Likes
4

RE: Martial Arts

My grade school kids are in martial arts. What they are doing doesn’t seem to have a lot to do with war.

4 Likes
5

In WI. I can openly carry a large sheath knife. :+1:
In WI. we have Martial Arts training centers openly teaching on Main Street with Swords
and Knives openly displayed in the window. :scream:

3 Likes
7

Yep, the same response as always.

Go for it guys. Carry those bad ass knives, stab someone, and I guarantee you will go to jail and have to prove it was self defense, and not a criminal act.
You will also have to fight to be covered by USCCA.

Meanwhile, shoot someone in self defense and if the scene speaks to it, most Detectives will guide the case in that direction.

But what do I know, it was only what I did for 22 years.

8

I think what @Steven288 is trying to imply is when it comes to self defense if one doesn’t know how to use a knife don’t count on it for self defense. It is not being responsibly armed. Even if one does manage to defend oneself it doesn’t look good in court. Same as if one was carrying some fancy gun that isn’t reliable.

9

Why… why would I, a law-abiding citizen, peace-loving, fully employed father of two,
“Go for it… and stab someone?”

Context matters.

8 Likes
10

what fantasy state were you a detective in where people who discharge a firearm in self-defense don’t automatically get to take a trip downtown until the DA and “investigators” decide one way or the other to press charges, regardless of “what the scene speaks to”? You sound like a detective with preconceived notions about crime scenes before actually “investigating” them. Thats the way your post comes off at any rate. I’m sure Daniel Penny would like to know, considering “what the scene” and eyewitnesses, and video evidence say to the contrary, and he did not even use a weapon.

7 Likes
13

So you’re telling me that if I want to go to the mall (where firearms aren’t allowed), if i don’t have a firearm, i can’t defend myself? Seems legit :thinking:… what I get is knives are weapons of martial arts and can’t be used for defense. Therefore, by relation, martial arts can’t be used for self defense either. Fighting in one form or another has been used in every conflict in the history of man, so since fighting is the art of war, it can’t be used either. We are continuously being told that our 2a rights are being assaulted more and more… More places we can’t carry… In those places should we just lay down and die because it’s “illegal” to carry a firearm?

7 Likes
14

I did detect a hint of purpose full deception. He is telling the truth and trying to make it sound like something else. What he is saying he thinks no one will think it is legitimate. I am not saying everyone who is arguing with him is not legitimate, it is everyone is arguing about something different. Just my take.

1 Like
15

While this could be a cutting edge issue (pun intended) for some, it is probably moot for most. Most people are not Michael Janich with decades of martial arts experience, and ample strength to consider using an edge weapon as primary means of defense. For most people reaching for the knife means the firearm has failed to stop the baddies, and they are angry and at arm’s length – i.e., going to be a choice between certain death and probable jail. What would you choose?

7 Likes
16

I get what you’re saying. I can see how when using a knife, it might be more difficult to prove what. That said, if someone is attacking you, use what you got. As far as training, or the lack of…on any given day, i have no doubt that there’s thousands of Americans walking around with a firearm that have zero formal training concerning firarms. Let’s not limit someone’s rights to self defense due to training… that’s where conditions to God given rights come from. Personally, I don’t care how it looks, as long as I’m still alive, was justified, and proven so.

9 Likes
17

If you’re going to try and use a knife as a self-defense tool, it will by definition require you to come within arm’s reach of your attacker. Most defensive engagements with firearms are already within bad-breath distance, but now someone wants to close even more and smell their attacker’s armpits too? How will that go over with the detectives and the prosecutors?

That doesn’t even consider the extra training involved; knife fighting is VERY fast and VERY dirty and there aren’t any time-outs or do-overs. It’s got to be right every time or it’ll be over before anyone knows what happened.

If I’ve let my guard down enough for someone to get close enough to stick me, I’ve failed to maintain adequate situational awareness…something every weapons instructor should be teaching every student at every level. Ask a couple of (as I recall) NYPD cops that let one perp stick both of them before they even got their hands on their sidearms. The video popped on YouTube about a month ago; it should be easily searchable, and it will make a GREAT classroom video in what not to do.

Go ahead and use that knife if you feel like it. Just be ready to do LOTS of explaining…while you’re in jail…if you survive.

3 Likes
18

Put on your life vests n floaties guys, heeeere comes the tidal wave of opinions! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

5 Likes
20

I don’t see any problem with knives. I enjoy the ads. I carry a knife on me all the time. They are handy as a tool and as protection if the firearm is inoperable.

10 Likes
21

Welcome to the forum. We are glad to have you with us. I agree, i carry 2 knives always now. A small one on my belt left side, and a Case trapper in my right pocket.

4 Likes
23

First of all, I’m a dork. One evening, instead of driving that day, I found myself waiting for a public transit bus at night, when a middle-aged lady approached me and told me where a local homeless shelter was. I mentioned politely “thank you, but I’m OK, just waiting for the bus to take me home”. I think she meant well.

Long ago, before I owned a car, one year I worked third shift and would ride a bus and a train to work, when while on an El Platform, completely alone, “two” extra-large men approached me, and were pretending to want a light from me, for a cigarette. My meek senses knew they wanted to rob my dumb _ _ _ . I didn’t carry a firearm back then, but I happened to have a knife in my pocket.

Here’s why I was lucky :

I made sure it was one which opened with the flick of one single wrist. It was the shiniest chrome metal one could ever find on such a low costing knife that it would reflect off any minute light or moonlight, and I had deliberately wanted it that shiny.

Size: It weren’t small

Display: Made sure good they both saw it

Words:
How many words exist, like 100 trillion? IDK. That past year, had I rehearsed the words I chose to use, like an actor would his lines, a thousand times — should I ever have to “display”. I had that s _ _ _ memorized. I don’t think I can reveal here what I said there, but my intention of my chosen words were brevity, clarity, convey how serious I was, that I was experienced, from their own community, all in one sentence. But I did not make it about them, but about me.

Not sure if it was the blade, my words or a combo of both; As I was surprised they turned around and left. If they were carrying weapons, of course I could have easily been injured or worse, but I also know if I had I done nothing, I would just as easily been injured, or worse.

Of course I believe there is a time and place when a firearm is justified, but I’d caution readers to learn good judgement, because there may be times when it’s not justifiable but less lethal means might be a better decision legally, which can include physical fighting back or alteranate non-lethal tools. My opinion is firearm is a last resort, but please know that’s not advice, just IMHO.

I come from a family of officers, though I myself am not.

I remember once a large group of us drove three cars long distance to go to a music concert. One of the drivers blew thru several stop signs, stop lights and sped. He was a police officer. I could not do what he did, so I fell behind of course. I, not being an officer, could not take his risks with the law. I missed their tail gate party, but I also got there safely. My point is, does having been an officer Vs. not — change one’s confidence or views on self defense (SD)? IDK. Food for thought.

I do appreciate the point on how the judicial system frowns on or disapproves of knife use, they have a long history of a bad reputation, unfortunately, and it’s not fair to victims of crime. Then some areas even make it illegal if the knife has too long a length or even certain features, even more unfair to us. Where I reside now, knives are practically illegal, but firearms are legal, go figure.

Compared to a stick, or some other weapons, I see that point. If it feels like it’s a fair fight, I might want to risk taking my licks and get my butt kicked.

But if it seems too unfair, life or limb on the line, I’ll take the legal risks by using a knife if I have one, or a firearm if carrying.

But because I am often in and out of “weapons prohibited” buildings, instead of my knife, I carry other EDC SD tools.

There are several other non-lethal SD tools available out there of course. And I will carry my “legal” up to code knife when legally allowed.

Good topic though.

3 Likes
25

Sooo… you’re saying that a knife is excellent self-defense tool. :dagger:
I carry a pistol, at times two, a large folder I can deploy with either hand, pepper jell and a heavy walking stick. I suppose I’m over armed. :thinking:

4 Likes
26

Careful Enzo, you will pass out first. :woozy_face:

4 Likes