It’s not a gun problem, it’s a human problem.

This morning, I watched videos of an insane, non-law-abiding citizen shooting out the doors to a church-school on his way in to murder six people.

It’s horrifying. Once again, we (culture/society/laws) collectively failed to protect the most innocent and vulnerable of our world.

We need accurate pre-cogs like The Minority Report to accurately (somewhat) predict who is going to commit homicide, and when, and where.

In the meantime, we absolutely must harden the typical targets (of course then perps will change to different targets) of the crazy people who want to do this sort of thing. And contrary to the blather of the extreme left, churches and schools can absolutely be hardened without looking or feeling like prisons. That’s just such baloney.

But to be clear, as we all already know, this is not because of a gun problem. To wit, consider the following documented facts:

Early in the founding of of our nation, some 54% of property-owning men, and about 19% of women, owned guns. (

Today, about 32% of all legal citizens own guns. (What Percentage of Americans Own Guns?)

Over the last 323 years, homicide rates have continued to fall:

Homicide rates:

1700: 30 per 100,000
1800: 20 per 100,000
1900: 10 per 100,000
2000: 6 per 100,000
2018: 6 per 100,000

The nightly news notwithstanding, we are actually living in a relatively safe period in which there are 80% fewer homicides per capita while gun ownership declined by only 22% per capita over the same period.

The DATA simply does not reveal a causal relationship between homicides and guns.

“in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity” includes taking all necessary steps to protect all citizens in our great republic, including and especially our children, from the menacing harm of the sick, evil people among us, while at the same time granting freedom and liberty to those who love our nation and desire to protect innocents from harm.

The problem is a human one. When we allow crazy people to own guns (can of worms there!!!) and fail to protect innocents from harm (like we do the whitehouse, congress, governors, court houses etc…) we only enable and embolden evildoers to keep perpetuating this nightmare.


So who exactly do we trust to decide the kind of thoughts and actions that should trigger the arrest of people who haven’t committed a crime?

And who gets to decide who the crazy people are that shouldn’t be allowed to own guns?

We already have laws in place to detain and disarm people who threaten to harm others. In many cases these sick active shooters publicly express their intentions. I don’t think we need to violate everyone’s rights any more than they already are in the name of making everyone “safer”.





EXACTLY the problem. Unless we have Pre-cogs!!! :wink:


I just read this:

“They (the parents) were under the impression that when she sold the weapon, she did not own any more,” he said. “As it turned out, she was hiding several weapons inside the house.”

He said the shooter was under a doctor’s care for an unspecified emotional disorder but was previously unknown to law enforcement.

“Her parents felt she should not own weapons,” he said. But Hale had secretly collected an arsenal.
EDIT to add link to article:


First off, I call BS on parents not knowing. If she was living in their home, there’s no way they didn’t know. I’m sure she went to the range to practice. She likely cleaned the guns at some point. You can’t live under the same roof and not know. I’d wager that the neighbors even knew.

Second, if they really did believe that she shouldn’t have weapons, then why were they okay with her having even the one they knew about? Did they call the FBI about her “emotional disorder” to see if they could prevent her from passing NICS? Did they call the police to consult with her doctor to possibly remove all weapons from the house if that’s what her doctor advised? The parents didn’t do sh*t.

Lastly, how are the police able to give so many details so quickly about her firearms purchases, but aren’t able to finish reading her manifesto to give her motive? The emphasis is always on firearms, getting the media running and whipping the angry hoards into an anti-2A frenzy instead of the most important part of the story - why did she do it?


I’m not so sure about that in many cases. There were a couple things I was into and up to as a kid that my parents had no idea of.

But in this case the parents apparently knew of at least one firearm and were concerned about it as well as being concerned about their kid’s mental state. The parents obviously should have made a much better effort to ensure this very sick person didn’t have access to firearms.


That’s a dangerously slippery slope that is being discussed here. So are we going to start taking guns away from veterans and police officers because they have used violence before.

You can think that’s an extreme position but it’s just the logical progression of that pov.

It’s not a road I am willing to go down. If someone commits an actionable offense, that’s one thing. It’s another thing to get into prosecuting pre-crime. Use an ounce of introspection, without virtue signaling and ask do I want my rights to be in the hands of someone else for something they think I might potentially do.

There is a part of my military time I don’t discuss. Because it was used against me, not for anything I had done. But because I had knowledge.

Not because I had done, said, or even thought of it. But simply because I know what I know.

Not. A. Road. I. Am. Willing. To. Go. Down.
:t_rex::sauropod::t_rex::t_rex::sauropod::t_rex::t_rex: (Rawr Dinosaurs)


MNPD: “We will not be releasing the manifesto during an open investigation.”

Also MNPD: But here’s all the details on the seven firearms she purchased from five different stores and here’s some video footage of her shooting up the school and looking for more victims. Oh, and here’s the bodycam footage of her being shot. But this is an open investigation so we don’t want the media talking about her motive yet. Just keep your focus on the perfectly legal firearm purchases so everyone can point to firearms as the root cause.


I guess it is a slippery slope. But if I had clear reason to believe someone I knew was a threat to themselves or others wouldn’t it be irresponsible of me to just ignore the threat and hope nothing bad happened?

Edit to make clearer: I was not talking about prosecuting pre crime. My other statements above should have made that clear.

I was talking about the responsibility of family and friends to stage some form of intervention when someone they know is showing clear signs they are a danger to themselves or others. As opposed to ignoring the problem and hoping no one gets hurt.
And yes I know it could be turned into a slippery slope especially in some states with red flag laws that violate people’s rights to due process.


It wouldn’t surprise me if there ends up being a double standard in this case. If the shooter was a white supremacist the manifesto would certainly be released as soon as possible.


I’m not going to get in another long exchange about responsible v not responsible, moral v immoral. I stand by what I said.

:sauropod::sauropod::sauropod::t_rex::t_rex:(RAWR Dinosaurs)


I don’t see the importance of where or how she got the guns is. The act has already been committed. If we want to prevent this act from happening again. We give the people we come in contact with the love they need. When we see someone picking up arms against someone else we try to stop them. I don’t see how we can do any more without a crystal ball. Other than that I think we are looking for someone to blame and unless they broke the law is as useless as gun control.


Are dinosaurs moral or immoral?:grinning:


This is the point I am trying to make. If you realize that someone you know is a threat to themselves and others then you show them the love they need by doing what you can to keep them from harm which includes keeping them from harming others.

You don’t need a Chrystal ball to see when someone you know is going off the rails. There are some rare cases where someone just snaps but in this instance it seems to have been building for awhile.


Exactly. Even if you have to use (good)violence to do it. Wouldn’t we want someone to do the same for us.

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Ideally other actions could be taken to avoid all forms of violence in the first place.


Depends on the individual dinosaur I would think:)

I suspect @Zavier_D ‘s dinosaur buddies are all as fine and upstanding as dinosaurs can be:)


Dinosaurs are… Hangry


Appreciated your details. I was wondering about the assailant’s background and the investigation. Condolences to the families. Heard about a lot of heroes who helped move some of children away from the danger zone. I too have a lot more Q’s.

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