If you were "Red Flagged" -What would your actions be?

[Sneezy]

Let’s just say you are wrongly flagged, but flagged none the less.

Here in the Communist state of NY, we have pistol registration so they know exactly what you own.

Let’s just assume a simple setup. There’s a pistol safe in a storage room as well as a long gun safe. Some long guns are “hidden”. Air Rifles (that belong to the local club) are in cases but out visibly.

So, scenario 1.
Cops show up at your door with the “order” in hand. Now I am assuming part of that order is a “search and seizure”.

Obviously I would be armed when I answer the door, thats just how it is. Do I have to turn over my wife’s gun? I am not giving up quietly. I’'l put out a threat of lawsuits about due process and rights, probably be a general jerk, but hopefully not enough to get shot!
For those that say cold dead hands… I own a business and have a wife and kids. Can’t really afford to die over my guns.

Do you show them to the safes right away and hope it satisfies them?

How much would they search? Would they find hidden guns? The reality is I want to keep protection and I don’t feel that if they can’t find it…is breaking the law, they are. (oh lawyers can have a field day).

Now you go to Court and fight…

Scenario 2. You get a call/text notifying you ahead of time.
How? well, we know enough Troopers and Sheriffs that it is a possibility. My wife does car seat checks as part of her job and certification with police regularly.

I am lucky that my favorite FFL lives 2 streets down from me. I can call him (we have talked as he knows the entire back story) and he would remove the guns and take legal possession before the cops show up. He would even stay and tell them and there isn’t a dang thing they can do about it! That also means when you are proven innocent, you get them back quickly. I do realize this is an unlikely scenario .
Pretty sure at this point I would only be a mild jerk just son they don’t hassle my FFL.

Once again you are off to court.

So the question is, do you fight, cave in? How much are you willing to hassle those wanting your firearms?

Do they hold your actions against you when you answer the door and subsequently end up in court?
Are you willing to risk your life over it?
Do you sue the person/people that wrongly flagged you after you have been proven innocent?
Do you sue the Government as well?
Can you afford the lawyer to sue them?
What kind of damages can be awarded to you?
If you legally have someone else’s guns, can that person go get them back before the court date?

I tried to keep it as generic as possible but the air rifle part is 100% real. I have a range in my basement which is pretty obvious!

[Boyd]

You ask some excellent questions and I don’t have the answers to them. I’m as interested as you in hearing what the people who are much smarter than I have to say on this topic One thing I know for sure is, armed men going to the houses of armed men to confiscate their guns can’t end well.

[JamesR]

Scenario1: They have an order and a warrant (I assume) and as such I would advise them of the weapon on my side and allow them to search my house. Just because they have a warrant and right to search my home does not mean I need to cooperate (nor does my family). They find what they find and don’t find what they don’t find.

Scenario2: Sure if that’s an option for you to surrender your weapons to an FFL or suddenly place them on “consignment” and you have time, that might be an option but I doubt I’d take that option even if it were available to me (I don’t want to get anyone else in trouble).

For Red Flag I’d fight in court and let it be what it’s going to be.

I wouldn’t risk my life at this point because there are still other options and this is not a mass confiscation but rather a complaint that’s been brought against me and needs to be addressed in court.

Assuming the person who reported the red flag on me did so maliciously, yes I might seek legal recourse against that individual (slander, harassment, etc).

I don’t know that I’d sue the gov’t unless they were targeting me maliciously and not treating others similarly.

Can I afford the lawyer? Nope, but I have a truck I can sell…I have other items I can take loans out against…I have friends. I’d find a way to afford it. In fact I might attempt to find an attorney who is taking this issue on as a campaign and see if I can get a reduced rate. Oh, and go fund me…(I’ll expect donations from all of you )

What damages awarded? Eh, not so important to me, what’s important is that my good name be restored and that justice is served against the reporting person if it was done maliciously.

Friend’s guns loaned to me? Don’t know, I suppose that depends on the State and how the law is written. But again that’s assuming they find those guns (as I’m not going to give up my right to no self incriminate).

My two cents (or maybe a buck twenty five)

[Orpackrat]

Considering long ago the Sherrifs here said they would not uphold unconstitutional laws…

I have some FFL friends I could talk into transfering what has not been lost at sea into safe keeping.

There would some huge legal problems headed to anyone involved, pain and suffering included.

[Craig6]

The reality of the situation is that the police can take anything they can find via a warrant AND they are not required to clean up their mess.

Depending on how the law is written in your state will depend on what happens to you. You may be taken away for a mental evaluation or they may just take your guns and leave. The reality of the situation is that it is better to fight it out in court than to have a gun fight.

LEO are just like you and me, they have a job to do and want to go home at the end of the day. They don’t make the laws they are however required to carry out the enforcement of them. Our challenge is to select those that make the laws.

Cheers,

Craig6

[Zee]

I have a little second-hand experience with something like this (no, not me, but someone I know well).

1. Don’t get shot.
2. Do as directed so you don’t get shot.
3. Make sure your family knows to do as directed so they don’t arrested for resisting or assault and so they don’t get shot either.
4. Get a really good lawyer. In advance is better, but get one who knows firearms law.
5. Know who your friends are, and who your REAL friends are - those that can help, those that can support you, those who get it.
6. Don’t get shot.

If they’ve got a warrant, they’re taking whatever they choose and the warrant allows. Deal with that through your lawyer.

Retaining firearms - you need to know VERY specifically what the law allows and what it does not, as well as what the court order allows. It may be that no firearms will be permitted on any premises you are on. It may be that they are permitted, provided you don’t have access (say, locked in a safe you don’t have the combo to). It may be that anything you own may be held by someone else (a friend, family member or FFL off site) or it may be that anything you own has to be sold or turned over to law enforcement. Make sure you know what the law and court is requiring and be VERY active with your lawyer about getting the details right. You don’t want your family or friends jammed up because you didn’t identify where the line is.

Addressing the issue in court - Lawyer! really good one. If you don’t have access to a Knoweldgeble and EXPERIENCED firearms lawyer in your area, find several outside your area and buy a couple of hours of each of their time to discuss your case with - then educate the heck out of your lawyer or pay him to consult with them also. Do your homework before you spend your money… the more you know before you call, the further your lawyer-consultation money will take you.

Addressing the false-reporter - The problem here is that to sue successfully you generally have to prove it was malicious or that they knew what they reported wasn’t true. If they can say they believed it to be true, and you can’t prove they didn’t, you’re probably not getting far on this one.

[Robert8]

@Zee. #5 Zee; I always have said that you can tell who for real friends are those who show up to help you on Moving Day. Those are your real friends and not Fair Weather Friends.

[Sneezy]

The NY Law is not written very well. My assumption is that the Court order would be better but I shouldn’t bank on it.

"In most cases, an assistant district attorney will file the ERPO petition in state supreme court. The petition will go before a judge where an assistant district attorney will present evidence and testimony as to why the order should be issued, Fitzpatrick said.

At this point, the gun owner or person in question is not informed of the petition and they are not part of the hearing, he said.

The judge will hear the testimony and has the ability to grant a temporary protection order to seize the person’s guns and prevent them from buying new guns.

A hearing will be held between three to six days after the seizure order. The hearing allows the person in question and the petitioner to present evidence to the judge. The judge then has the ability to issue a final protection order."

Lets face it, we all know that you won’t get a court date in 3-6 days. Won’t happen.

I don’t have a great 2A lawyer but a friend of mine is the retired local public defender and certainly knows plenty. He’s not a fan of red flag laws either. Worst case, he certainly would know someone if he can’t do it.

In this case, I am fairly certain that the false report would be able to be proven so. It depends on how malicious the disgruntled family member wants to be. (another real part).

I do appreciate the answers from everyone! I really want this to be an eye opening discussion.

[Robert8]

My First and only question to you is; if you know that the people at your door are the police or otherwise law enforcement as you stated why the hell would you trot to your door with a firearm drawn from a holster? Unless you looking for Drama that certainly going to get your firearms taken away and you are going to be facing a lot of problems you very likely are not psychologically or financially prepared for? What’s the point? I’m sorry that was Two Questions! To me it seems like you are very lonely and begging for attention Friend

[Dawn]

@Henry_A I would highly suggest talking with an attorney NOW to find out what your options are. Answering the door with a gun drawn is not something I would advise if it’s the police knocking on your door.

I would also suggest being very careful what you say on any sort of social media as it can be used against you. Comments like what you posted could be used to say you are looking to get into a gunfight with the police. If the police are doing their jobs, a shoot out with them is not advisable nor is it something that would pass the reasonable person test. It could also be used to say that your statement means you’re a threat to others and therefore create grounds for a red flag situation. I am not saying that it is 100% going to happen, but why give anyone anything to use against you?

Please consider removing your post and contact an attorney to see what you should do if a red flag situation arrises.

[Robert8]

@Henry_A. Henry why not cultivate a new friend? I mean nobody wants to see nothing happen to you, we’re all friendly here overall either new people like our group here and adapt or they don’t get us and stay for awhile and disappear. You said you have a couple friends. If not I’m betting you can become a friend to someone in your town right? I lived in a TX town in the 80’s when I was at Fort Hood, TX and if nothing else the older guys in TX, and NM, and AZ all had at least one friend and every town has a Domino Parlor I know they do. Why not be a friend and have a friend or two? Nobody here wants anything to happen to you Henry. Be a friend and stop being lonely buddy. And take down your posting so someone you don’t want to see it…Doesn’t!!

[Henry_A]

@Dawn, I considered your position and agree. I probably would answer the door with my weapon in its holster. @Robert; I am not looking for any kind of noteriety, in fact all I want to do is to be left alone to live my life. I do have friends, I just do not have any close friends… My gun is at my side to protect my life, and the lives of my friends*
I dont really have any ‘stuff’ worth fighting over, but the line in the sand remains.
Henry A. Scally IV
*depending on the circumstances/situation.

[Henry_A]

The only way they will take my guns is ‘from my cold dead hands’.

[Robert8]

I understand you Henry @Henry_A

[Robert8]

What would we ever do or say if Charlton Heston Never said the words “From My Cold Dead Hands”
I don’t think we could survive as a society.

[Henry_A]

TRUTH.
Thank You, Sir.

[Robert8]

@Henry_A Have a terrific weekend Henry. Bless you Sir!

[David38]

A good friend will help.you move. A REAL GOOD friend will help.you move a body.

[Robert8]

@David38 Well I moved thousands of bodies as a Funeral Director and never got much help. I’m happily retired now and don’t miss the death industry at all Dave

[David38]

@Robert8, I know it doesn’t make sense, but when you’re in the business, all of a sudden it’s “creepy”.