I always take photos of my targets for comparison to each practice session to see if I am improving, slacking off, and so that I can spend a bit more time assessing my shot placement. Would I be able to post any of these photos to get an opinion from people who may be more knowledgeable and experienced than myself?
You’d be surprised on the helpful feedback you receive.
Post them here… All of us will take advantage of this.
BTW… I’m doing the same, taking pictures for future reference…
How do I post them to this site?
Save Pics to your PC,
go with REPLY
find UPLOAD icon on top
upload the pics
As an added training aid it may also be helpful if you do a video of you shooting and then take the target pic. Now not only do you have the results you have the how and why they occurred.
If you’re looking for feedback with a particular issue, post and ask! lots of very knowlegable folks and a good selection of teachers here. There’s also a thread here: Weekly Target Feedback! where folks have posted sort of on-going updates of their targets.
Also, search on the word “drill” and you’ll find lots of threads with ideas about training.
If you’re going to add your targets here, you may want to update the thread title to reflect what you’re wanting as well - that will help people find it
What method do I use to post pictures. I don’t see anywhere that it says upload pictures.
@Anthony18 If you are on your phone, you will see the same “photo” icon, but it may be in the lower right of the editing box, rather than on the top (that’s where it is on my Android phone). You can select that, then choose a photo off your phone.
Thank you Jerzy for the advice on posting photos.
I am seeking any advice on how I can tighten my groups. I am using my EDC Sig P-365. I have placed my photos in a zip folder and labeled each folder with my shooting style for each. The small black target on the target is a sticker I bought so that I could have a smaller point of focus to aim at.
Any advice is welcome
You certainly can but without observing you in person or on video they are going to be of limited value.
If you could at least get someone else to take shots of your shooting stance and grip from both sides that would be a tremendous help.
Here I see at least 3 different distinct patterns and a lot of scattering.
Offhand I’d say it shows me inconsistency in the sight picture first, probably impatience fighting a wobble and fatigue from too much shooting in one session. Possibly some inconsistency in the grip as well.
The low shots indicate that you’re squeezing with the whole hand rather than just the trigger finger when pressing the trigger.
Not bad at all for fifty feet though.
I agree, it can be hard to tell what’s happening just from targets, but here are a couple of things I’d suggest trying or looking at:
Do some drills at closer distances. I find target acquisition easier and faster at the close distance, so I’m able to get on-target more quickly and with less fatigue. That reduces the “wobble” and lets me see what else is happening there more clearly. I typically start my training with 3 yards, and if the group is tight, I’ll move to 5. If its still tight, I’ll move to 7. Self defense shooting is typically at arms-length to 3 yards, so that’s where I start every session.
You may want to shoot 2-5 rounds then relax to low ready or compressed ready and roll your shoulders, or put the firearm down and jiggle out your arms to release any tension and fatigue in the muscles. If the scatter is a byproduct of fatigue or muscle tension, your groups should tighten up noticeably when you do this.
I see a general “left” pattern - that might mean (if you’re right handed) you’re pushing the trigger a little left at the end of the trigger pull. Try dry firing with an empty brass shell standing on the slide near the muzzle. If you’re dropping the brass when you pull back, that’s a clue your trigger control needs some improvement. If it’s tipping off the front, you’re diving (this is the anticipation of recoil). If it’s tipping off one side or the other, you may be pushing the trigger left or pulling the trigger right at the end of the trigger stroke.
If you’re still seeing a lot of scatter at close distances, rather than a consistent grouping, you may be adjusting your position between shots. I do that if the firearm is too heavy, or if I’ve held it extended too long at one time, or if its shifting in my grip from insufficient recoil control or sweaty hands. This can also happen if the grip is too big or way too small. If you’re making micro adjustments or shifting the firearm in your hand between shots, you won’t see a consistent pattern form. One way to check this is to start at low-ready, confirm your grip is where you want it, acquire the target, slow squeeze one shot, slow release, reacquire the target, slow squeeze a second shot, slow release, back to low ready, check your grip position. If you need to adjust your grip again to get it right after you’re back at low ready, the gun is moving in your hand, or you’re shifting it around between shots. Getting more skin on the grip from the support hand may help, but having someone else look at your grip is useful.
Last thought for now - Practice doesn’t make perfect, only Perfect Practice makes Perfect. Practicing at a distance where you can get good groups will help you refine and reinforce your core skills and build the consistent muscle memory that you’ll need to get good groups at further distances. It’s part neurological, but also part mental - you start to become aware of what works, what matters, what the subtle details are because you are having success in a repeatable way. Then moving the target back the groups will open up a bit, but you focus on the things that you’ve identified as working for you and it will tighten up quickly. I find the improvement in accuracy and grouping happens a LOT faster if I’ve got good groups up close, then start to challenge the distance a bit at a time. When I’ve trained by starting at longer distances with looser groups and trying to improve my accuracy while at that distance, I don’t get improvement in my group size anywhere near as fast.
Don’t know if any of that will help, but maybe you’ll find something in there to start to experiment with. And… of course… getting a teacher or coach who knows what they’re doing is a HUGE help, and I highly recommend it.
Yes, but keep the posts to PM/IM and not public if you mean on social channels
… @Brian2, trying to figure out which posts you mean… ?
Thanks so much for the input. I originally wasn’t sure if I posted correctly so I posted using a new topic called target help. Unfortunately most of the ranges here are indoor lane ranges and the closest I can get is 20 feet. Coaches tend to be very expensive and I am not sitting on a lot of extra cash. I had taken some training once and it was $125/hr. for private lessons.
Everything you said makes so much sense. Yes, when I was shooting at 50 ft. I did feel a bit of fatigue and I found myself pushing forward anticipating the recoil. The target with the headshot was at 20 feet 1 second per round and you are right again. On that target I was passing the gun from hand to hand so I could get in a (self created ) drill of strong (right) hand alternating with weak (left).
When I practice I load all four mags at once = 48 rounds. I keep 2 mags in my mag carrier on my waist and as each mag goes empty I bring the gun in front of my face, drop the empty mag, draw a new mag from the carrier with my left hand, quickly load and rack and get back to firing. So I go through 48 rounds. I have a Sig P365.
I do have to say that I think you nailed a few issues. I’m going to keep them all in mind the next time on the range. Possibly next week.
Thank you again.
@Anthony18 very glad you found something in there to work with.
Since you have limitations at the range, it’s going to be that much more reason to do lots of dry fire… it can be an amazing help in improving things like trigger control. Its excellent that you’re working weak hand. Do your dry fire on weak hand too.
One way to incorporate that in your live fire and get better leverage on improving your accuracy is to do 2-3 shot strings without changing hands … so, say 5 sets of slow 2 shots right handed then 5 sets of 2 shots left handed, with a low ready between each 2-shot string. That way you are minimizing the fatigue effect, getting more “perfect” practice, and changing your grip less often so you can see the results your grip is creating more clearly.
In general, I’ve found that I get fastest improvement when I work 7 or 8 sessions of the same drills at less challenging distances… basically within my success zone… and then 3-4 sessions pushing my limits. By then, I usually have a new success zone. I consider a success zone is where I’m getting 90% accuracy, so in 10 rounds no more than 1 is outside my selected target area.
I also find that logging each drill as I complete it has yielded some insights that I might not have otherwise have observed.
It’s good that you’re doing reload drills. I might suggest that you separate your reload drill from your accuracy drill, for now, while you work on getting your accuracy up. For instance do your accuracy drill and when you’re satisfied, work on a reload drill where you load each mag with 1-3 rounds and get more reloads in fewer rounds. In this drill, I’d work on smooth slow action to get that “perfect” reload and then build up speed over time. “Slow is smooth and smooth is fast”
Lastly, when you’ve seen some improvements and feel like you’ve reached a plateau you are struggling with, that’s the time to invest that $125 in a coach and get some specific feedback you can dig into and apply.
Looking forward to seeing your progress!