Draw time 3 Seconds

In the winter I carry 2 guns, a .32 in my outside coat pocket and my .45 under my coat at 3:00.

At the range I practice with gloves on and cane in my right hand, I reach with my left hand and
grab the cane and tips of two fingers of my RH and pull the glove off and either hold both in my left hand or drop both. I can reach the .32 with one hand or draw the .45 with two hands.
Practice, practice, practice.

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Your overall time will be made up of OODA loop + draw time + aim/shoot time. Not paying attention or freezing will have much worse impact than extra 1-1.5s on draw.

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Well, that is true, but it’s also context dependent.

Just one example (no pudding or custard was harmed in the making of this story)…

Criminal comes up on you and demands your wallet while brandishing his weapon (gun, knife, crow bar, etc). You can throw your left hand up, empty or with a phone as a peace offering, which also helps provide a physical barrier (criminals in this scenario often like intimidating physically including poking you with a firearm so you know “they mean business”). Take a step back with your strong side foot, and say you’re getting your wallet but instead reach for your firearm. You don’t have to blade exactly perpendicular, even a slight twist helps concealment. If you carry closer to 5 o’clock instead of 3 o’clock you might not even need to turn at all. The criminal can’t see the firearm until it’s too late. This “posture” also helps prevent the criminal from jamming your draw since they’d have to reach across your arm, and body to get to your gun hand.

Same scenario, but with appendix carry. There are very few criminals you can convince that your wallet is under your tshirt. So your only response there is speed, which fortunately is a benefit of AIWB.

It’s not every scenario that offers an ability to conceal the strong side draw, but there are more than you’d get from AIWB. Every carry position has pros and cons.

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Exactly, I have thought through that scenario. “OK OK I’ll give you my Wallet”, reach back towards my pocket and DRAW. I don’t know. I just like the way my EDC fit’s at the 4:30 so I’ll practice with it there.

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I see the dynamic there and how it would work to advantage, and your weapon would be less accessible to that guy.

If a bad guy wants a wallet — not your phone, your car, or your life. If a bad guy who wants a wallet would let you reach for it — instead of taking you down or spinning you 'round and cutting the wallet out for himself. Seems like a minor case. More important, you’re talking about drawing against a drawn weapon at contact distance with BG full attention directly upon you. Seems like bad odds to pull against, unless convinced that he really wants your life — or really won’t harm a resisting victim.

In the face-to-face contact distance stickup, I think I’d be more inclined to go for his weapon than mine — and try to create dominance or escape from there — or submit and wait my turn. Sneaking a draw from any carry position is for when BG is more distracted or more distant.

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Drawing on a drawn gun?

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Generally not recommended. To further quote ASP “wait your turn”. If you keep up with ASP or similar, you’ve likely seen plenty of real world examples where criminal enters scene gun in hand or draws first, and defender still gets to reactively draw and win. Occasionally by drawing directly on a drawn gun, more often by waiting their turn until the initiator looks away or is otherwise distracted for a moment.

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Agreed.

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This is a great topic to begin discussion. I would like to ask if your draw time and accuracy level were done “cold” or was it over a practice period? Before I begin my training, I often remind myself of Ken Hackathorn’s quote; you’re first draw, or cold start, is the one that counts.

I am amazed at individuals who can draw their firearm and hit a target in less than 1.0 second. (I’m pretty good, but have never been that good, nor do I care that I am not) But usually this is done after a number of repetitions, under static conditions and from a race holster that is OWB, with total focus on the task.

Drawing your firearm from your holster as quick as possible is important. And there are way too many factors involved to say “this is a good time”.

Continue to practice the way you are; with EDC in various positions (standing, sitting, sitting at the dinner/bfast table. I’m sure you’ll see that “times” vary quite a bit.

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Great point, and one we talk about a lot in hand to hand combat drills. To your question, I’m usually about 3.6 - 4.0 on the very first draw but that number improves in short order. So my on the street time is probably 4+ counting for the surprise factor.

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I really like that distinction between your draw on the range and what it probably is in “real life.”
If it makes you feel any better, you are probably never, ever going to find yourself facing down an opponent at high noon in a quick draw duel. Draw speed is important, but not as important as being aware of your surroundings, finding cover when necessary, or escaping when possible.

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The purpose of my practice (aside from fun) is DGU, so I do as much as I can to make every timed string of fire as “cold” as I can. Obviously, after the first shot of the day I really can’t — and solo on a range the target is known, the need to shoot is given, the course of fire is pre-determined, and Ready-Set-Beep is anticipated.

But I make a conscious effort to mentally reset my head to the birds and the breeze for each start. I will pick brass, mark or move targets, and make notes, etc between each exercise. Also, I don’t do reps in live fire — I’ll repeat a string if I made a blunder and want to correct it. Otherwise, one run and on to the next thing. Reps are for dry fire and dream state. The day’s first exercise is planned to be the closest and fastest. Any slow-fire precision or long-range is for late in the session. As a session goes on, my conscious brain starts to get in my way instead of helping — I think the unconscious part embeds a lot of my learning after the gunpowder is put away.

Happily, I am reasonably consistent (current plateau) out of the gate from concealment at 2.8 for 3 hits to a subdued 6" A-zone on a silhouette at 3 yards. More distance = more time, more spread, or both. At this point, I’m more concerned about tactical awareness and decision making than gaining speed.

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I would be more concerned about the time required to identify the threat and initiate action than the time required to draw, acquire, and fire. You can practice the latter but the former is mental.

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I love this.
I’ve done plenty of shoot/no-shoot lanes, but even in those, you know there’s a threat somewhere. I can’t say I’m always aware of threats in day-to-day life. We could even get more layers into this when we add in potential legal penalties if we unholster our firearms prematurely. The time it takes to mentally process what’s happening is really critical.

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And, it’s very difficult to practice. I mean, on the street it’s random, 0-60 in no time at all.

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When I wore a badge we were required to draw from a secured Safariland SSIII or Level 3 Raptor duty holster and put 2 rounds on target at 3-ft in 1-second OR LESS. I generally limit my range distances to around 15 ft, nowadays.

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That’s FAST!! :running_woman: :man_running:

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How was that 1 second measured?

I ask because I did similar (with a step back required during) in “1.5 seconds”, supposedly what the targets were programmed to face for, but…that was a slow count of 1.5…guaranteed a shot timer that beeped when the targets started to indicate they were going to move, would have shown longer.

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With an electronic timer. The last time I performed such was during my last Q in 2004. It’s been a while…

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Not saying this is right or wrong, but it works for me. Most of my practice at the house is with a CO2 Airsoft gun or a BB gun. I have a catch box in the garage with a 7" hole cut into it. If I want to, I can put a target in front of it but when practicing from the holster I just have the big black hole as a target. When the shot timer goes off, I draw as I move and put two shots into the hole from across the garage. I don’t try to sight into a given spot but just want to get them in that seven-inch spot. I believe it allowed me to speed up as I am not aiming, even subconsciously, for the 10 ring. A seven-inch spot in the upper center mass should be combat effective. I can get time under 2 seconds, but 2.25 is about average. At the range, with live fire I often use the IDPA target and have no problem with keeping them in the big -0 circle.

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