In PA we have the Stand Your Ground law which states:
A person in any lawful place outside his home “has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his ground and use force, including deadly force if . . . (he) believes it is immediately necessary to do so to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping, or sexual intercourse by force or threat.” (18 PA consolidated statutes 505(b)(2.3)).
Now stand this statement up against a bullhorn in your ear at one of the many increasing protests that accost innocent people sitting outside and eating dinner on public streets. A mob will come by, stop at the restaurant, and demand you raise your fist to support the BLM movement. If you don’t raise your fist, the mob will surround you and scream into your face with bullhorns.
Bullhorns at close range will cause permanent damage to your hearing. I consider the ability to hear as a major function of the body. If someone willfully blasts a bullhorn in your ear, does that consitute “serious bodily harm” and therefore allow you defend yourself with lethal force? At the very least it should support brandishing of your weapon.
I hear what you’re saying but I think it would be a stretch for a “reasonable jury” to find that deadly force was justified against a bullhorn (unless the bullhorn was being used as some sort of bludgeoning tool).
Brandishing maybe depending on the State you live in, but if you don’t intend to fire then what’s the point of drawing? The problem as I look at the video is that they’ve already allowed the group to get too close for a gun, because they could easily rush you and suddenly your gun becomes “our” gun.
This is where having a less than lethal option if desirable (e.g. pepper spray, baton, tacpen), but even then I’m not sure I would go to that…I would simply leave (especially with my wife). If I was feeling the need to stay put, then I would simply ignore them (but I would be prepared to use mace and/or chair I was sitting on as a weapon to get them off me should they decide to engage physically).
But they didn’t want physical engagement…they wanted to be YouTube/Instagram famous and were performing for those clips.
I would agree with you but I am sure a left leaning prosecutor would try to fry you.
I would try to verbalize first,( WI has a duty to retreat) then use pepper spray which will cause an attack from others and if trapped I would resort to my firearm.
Hypothetically speaking of course.
Would you rather stand up to them or get home safely home to your family that night without incident? We do our best to avoid bad situations - but sometimes they find us. If we can walk away, that is the fastest way to get home safely without any legal aftermath.
Sick, really sick. I would not be able to carry enough pepper spray for that. And the last clip was in front of a home, disrupting the entire neighborhood. Yes, let’s defund the police so we can experience more of that. I understand what @Dawn is saying about leaving, but we should not have to flee everyplace these people show-up. The police should be arresting them en masse, and stopping the disturbance of the peace, and any other activities they might be engaged in. We are supposed to be living in a civil society where these acts are not only unacceptable, but criminal (which they are both).
Wow! Surrender. I thought our motto was “don’t tread on me”, now it’s “walk all over me!” Can’t you see they have won!
I need to understand what you’re willing to do if they don’t allow you access to your home. We’re not to far from that! Seems peaceable enough to me, will you dial a non functioning 911, would you say “excuse me this is my home?” Seems to me you’ll be spending your time at the local hotel. What exactly are you going to do about 50, 90, 200 300 people preventing you from entering your home?
Please enlighten us. Trespassing, Schmesspassing, they got you right where they want!
I get where you are coming from. But, do you want to be in court showing charts of decibels numbers and possible hearing loss while the prosecutor has pictures of a person that was shot?
I have been very surprised at the lack of arrests during all these riots and such over the last few months. It seems they keep getting more and more violent. I am concealed about what is going on. At some point, sane people are going to fight back.
You mean the poster boy for group therapy? Furthermore that’s all the prosecution should have! I know that’s harsh.
First, law and order are a fallacy unless you’re the good guy, (Mcloskey’s) second, felons are coming to a neighbor near you! If they are not playing, I’m not playing. They are shooting cops ON the streets of the United States. That’s more than just a bad taste in my mouth.
The more you let them get away with this the more they will take and it could be us. I have only one question.
What do you do when 150 “peaceful” protesters PREVENT you from entering your home? And 911 doesn’t exist or are to busy with downtown “peaceful” arsonists?
Do you surrender and retreat? All of this is going way to far! Law enforcement is disappearing!
The goal of self-defense is not to get in the middle of a confrontation or engage in every confrontation that is presented to us. That is not surrendering, that is part of self-defense.
If we engage in every confrontation that comes our way, they have won. We cannot let someone else’s behavior dictate ours.
The best fight is the one we don’t have to have. That hasn’t changed in this current political climate.
I just feel the more law enforcement quits and more straight up shootings of cops in their cars, they win by attrition! Please don’t tell me those cops should have avoided the area!
I understand what you’re trying to say, however I will never abandon my home, I will never avoid my home! Is there a law I’m unaware of? Yes, of course there are, but my castle and my family will be defended to the death. Nothing justifies these people taking my home under any circumstances!
The bullhorn situation didn’t take place at home, @Scott52. No one is saying we shouldn’t protect our family and friends or that the police shouldn’t be protecting the public.
I agree, it is going too far. But you have to take each thing as it comes, and how it relates to the laws of where you live. I was responding to the post about people with a bullhorn, not all the other things.
I don’t think I want to take on 150 people though… I mean I carry an extra mag or two, but not that much ammo!
Inflicting pain and possible bodily injury is assault, not to mention the obvious harassment. This stuff is clearly illegal, is it not? Are they being allowed to do this with impunity as well?
Even IF it were justified to use deadly force against a bullhorn. In this situation how many people would you have to engage to end the conflict. Look at that 17yr old kid. He did everything he could and was still chased down, and shot 3 people.
These riots are becoming more dynamic, of course avoiding them is the best idea. I also understand the argument of we need to stop giving into these people. Everyone’s tolerance and ability is different therefore everyone’s line in the sand is gonna be slightly different.
If you notice the larger crowd comes after these clowns, imagine of you fired shots and then that crowd shows up not knowing anything. All they will see is someone shooting BLM supporters. We gotta play the long game on this one to win. I know it sucks and I’m tired of seeing it go unchecked but until Nov. We still have a vote and as of right now I’m more willing to tolerate it than I am willing to see more bloodshed on US soil.
A bullhorn would probably scare the crap out of me. So much so that with my back to the wall, or the table, or whatever I would likely bolt forward as a reflex reaction. I would only hope that I did not go through a protestor and that then, consequently, the bull horn did not end up wearing a new set of dentures…
I don’t see the election changing anything. If the Dems win, they’ve lost control already and won’t be able to reign it in. If POTUS wins, the never Trump war will continue. Even in a landslide they won’t concede, and the only way they’ll win IMO is cheat. It’s already being set up.
