Another Red Flag Incident Gone Bad

I hate to say it, but I fear there are going to be a lot more incidents like this.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/crime/bs-md-aa-shooting-20181105-story.html

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Gonna just keep getting worse unfortunately

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Unfortunately the anti gun left sees incidents like these as a logical reason to disarm us.

Anyone willing to fight the police serving such a warrant is in their minds someone who should have never had a gun to begin with.

Worse, they paint all gun owners with the same broad brush.

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Isn’t this story originally from a month or more ago? I seem to remember some of the quotes, like “family being family”.

These “ERPO’s.” as currently written and executed are completely unconstitutional and I believe LEO should be held liable for civil rights violations as well as damages.

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You’re right. I saw it run by my Twitter feed and thought it was current. It’s from Nov 18.

I need to pay more attention to what I post. :frowning:

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Qualified immunity I imagine will give them full protections as long as they are enforcing the law as written.

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However, the law is written. Serial Killers and rapists get more due process than this. The man was 61 and a law abiding citizens, until someone decided to play God. There is a Constitution with a Bill of Rights for a reason.

Someone said about gun rights that we weren’t in a suicide pact. Well, being a law abiding citizen and a veteran who put my life on the line for what I believe in, doesn’t mean I am in a suicide pact because I choose to enjoy my “Constitutionally” protected right to own a gun and to go to the range , do some sport shooting, and maybe even some hunting.

This needs to go to the Supreme Court, like yesterday, so I know if I need to leave the country or not.

This is nothing but an end run around the Constitution. I find it ironic that no one will identify the 2 officers, who couldn’t control 1, 61 year old man but it’s ok to identify the 61 y/o man.

I also found it ironic that, the Chief of Police, doesn’t know what they " might have prevented. I can tell you one thing you prevented. You prevented that man from ever seeing another day of life.

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Oh I fully agree, I’m just speaking as to the liability the police would have if any under civil rights laws.

As Thomas said, “The 2nd Amendment has become a disfavored right”.

The public on the whole really doesn’t recognize our 2nd Amendment Rights as “rights” at all, just a privilege to be heavily regulated.

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Now isn’t that ironic based on deaths the left deemed as “murder” such as Michael Brown and Eric Garner suddenly are justified when they’re serving these ERPO’s?

I was listening to Tom Gresham’s podcast today and in the killing of the Fort Worth woman he made the statement, and correctly so in my opinion, why would the officers not expect someone inside the home at that time of night/morning banging on their door to respond with a weapon in their hand? (not saying she had one but saying that even if she did she would be justified a woman alone with her 8yr old nephew).

I agree with others here saying that there will be many more deaths unless police change their training and tactics when serving these warrants. You can’t treat them like a “no knock” warrant IMO.

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I’ve never understood how Michael Brown, was a standard bearer for his community. He just ROBBED a liquor store, was seen by the police and while they attempted to apprehend him he went for the police officers gun & was quite a large man.

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That is a very sad fact, @Zavier_D.

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I share your anger. Your statement, “This is nothing but an end run around the Constitution ,” is exactly right. Denial of due process is not the American way.

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I’m not saying that it is but this feels like extra legal murder. Put a surveillance unit on him then call and tell him to call his lawyers and that you will be waiting for him at his home to serve it. This no knock ■■■■ is supposed to be for high risk felons who are dangerous. Not a 61 year old man, who disagreed with his sister.

A couple of the the things I find curious, how did she (the aunt) survive this ferocious 61 y/o before these Red Flag laws?

The conflict happened at 11p.m. Saturday night yet they managed to find a judge in less than 6 hours, how?

I am pretty sure any LEO in here will tell you serving that kind of order, that once he was outside w/o a gun, they would have either restrained him or put him in the car while they served the warrant. Why didn’t they?

Why let him go back into the house at all?

Why only 2 officers to search an entire dwelling? Especially for something as small as a gun and so easily hidden

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This is why I’ve stopped “advertising” I own and carry guns. Took all the gun bumper stickers off my vehicles, stopped wearing gun shirts, hats, etc. There are a few people that know I carry but they know me and I’m certain they won’t be “dropping a dime” on me.

Of course I still might piss off the old cougar and she’d call! :joy:

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Probably too early to start tabulating but I’ll be interested to see the statistics on how many of these end up in a shooting incident, how many result in a death (on either side of the equation) and how many of these actually stopped any type of homicide.

I’ll also be interested to see the stats on the due process given and the length of time it takes to accomplish.

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What I’m waiting for is a year’s statistics to see how many murders were committed serving these “warrants” on law abiding citizens, vs how many died that year in Mass shootings.

So I am clear, I can understand the LEO’s side. You are keyed up as hell, you just want to go home to see your family, they have you up at Oh dark thirty to go serve these No Knock Warrants and confiscate this person’s weapons, you arrive, tensions elevate , and shooting starts. I get that. But, just like in the military, you take/took an oath and you are being given a “bad order”.

Sometimes, you just have to say no. This is barely even a fig leaf of cover, for what is an end run around the Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms.

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Exactly…however giving their oath to protect the Constitution an aside (because I understand the other side of that as well), they are going to need to rethink their approach on how they’re going to execute these grabs or there will be more deaths.

I might suggest starting off with a low key visit and an initial call from the officer’s squad car (unless the officer has confirmed knowledge of an imminent threat).

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A minority robbing another minority for that matter.

There is an “outrage” movement in this country however that looks for any incident involving black suspects and white officers to further their own political goals despite the facts of any of those cases.

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That, and/or a simple knock at the door or ringing of the doorbell.

Texas is also a state where a home/land owner can shoot a trespasser lawfully after dark so you’d think in a state like ours cops would be appropriately trained on how to deal with such cases particularly after dark.

There is an attitude that is pervasive in police training that basically says, “I’m coming home after my shift no matter what and we’ll deal with the consequences as necessary to protect each other to that end”.

There are lots of neighborhoods in this country that are all but free fire war zones but this wan’t one of them.

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This is why I choose to “Grey Man” rather than advertise. There are no stickers of any kind on my car. I don’t wear clothing with political statements or leanings, or draw attention to my second amendment beliefs or hobbies. My gear bags are boring, ordinary, and not tacticool. My time in service, what I did, and some other factors also ingrained a behavior of not drawing attention.

The denial of Due Process is an egregious violation.

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