Advice on a fixed blade knife please

I’ll ask @James to stop by here, I know he’s been busy lately. :wink: I don’t know if he has a site.

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To my recollection a fixed blade carried on a belt in some places can get you in trouble. Probably something I heard while in California… If you get a really tough folding knife which is built like a tank - something like a Strider or Medford folding knife I see no reason for a fixed blade knife unless you are going to use it for chopping trees (like a Tom Brown Tracker knife). While Strider and Medford’s are going to be out of your price range there have been (sorry to mention) a number of high quality clones of these two brands which are every bit as tough as the originals. In the words of famous knifemaker Mick Strider " I could hardly tell the difference myself". I would advise getting a good quality blade steel that’s going to last such as S30V, S35V or D2 tool steel (D2 needs to be kept dry or wiped dry to avoid rust but is tool steel and about as tough as you’ll be able to afford). Forget Damascus unless you just want it for looks. It’s not as good as the one’s just mentioned for hardness or other factors.
Benchmades are good quality but not as heavy duty as Strider or Medford. BTW I do support buying a real Strider (I have a real Strider SMF) and supporting US made knives if you can. They will last a lifetime but I understand not everyone can come up with the prices they demand.

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It all boils down to simplicity. If you are fighting for your life it’s going to always be more difficult to bring a folding knife into play than a fixed blade.

Folding knives are however easier to conceal and generally more comfortable so like everything else it’s a trade off and you are right, you need to know your local knife laws if you’re going to carry one at all.

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Having carried knives for many decades, with the knives I carry and use everyday I think the extra time it takes to get a fixed blade fully out of a sheath would be roughly equivalent to how fast I can get a folder pulled and open. Folders I carry either have thumb studs or opener holes that make for fast one hand deployment. There are also the Emerson style knives with a hook shape on the back of the blade that will automatically open them as they are pulled from a clipped pocket making them as fast as anything can be. Also some spring assist (but not automatics) like some Kershaw styles open fast as soon as you start a little push of the thumb stud. Of course there are fully automatic knives too which are legal in some states. I personally don’t care much for auto’s though.
I’ll add I don’t think knives are especially good for self defense though. Maybe as a last ditch scenario but when you are up close enough to use a knife it can be taken from you by someone with skill or strength and used against you. Also if you pull a knife to scare someone off from attacking you and they have a gun (concealed) then you know how that will probably end - not well. It also seems the only time I see news of someone using a knife they end up being the bad guy or woman… Take the woman in Florida today who tried to stab another woman with a knife because the other woman wouldn’t share a pizza slice with her! Psychotic! There are a number of other reasons too that I think a gun is a much better self defense tool. I think most are obvious.

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The main value I seen in carrying a knife for SD is for when your attacker has already closed within two arm’s reach or worse already has you in a clutch.

A knife can be easily used to maintain or create distance to give you a safe opportunity to draw.

I’m pretty old school and stick to the KISS theory as much as possible in self defense.

The fewer steps you have to go through to get your tools in action I think the average person is far better off.

I’m kind of a knife nut myself, I will almost always carry at least two, one for daily work and one for self defense. I also carry both folders and fixed blades depending on how I’m dressing and what I have planned for the day.

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Can I just say I LOVE how much y’all are teaching me about knives? I now have a bunch of things to go look for and make some decisions about… not sure my hubby is going to be as thrilled as I am about my getting a new obsession for expensive tools… :laughing:

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I don’t know your hand size Zee but take a look at the picture I posted above. Very nice knife dirt cheap, it just won’t fit my bear paws for my intended purpose.

You don’t really have to spend a pile of money on knives. Look at the materials, that’s what matters most.

While there are different grades of stainless, essentially they are all the same for our purposes.

Let’s face it, Kershaw for example has a mirror product for just about everything Zero Tolerance puts out and at half or a third the price but still excellent quality.

Unless you’re a real collector like I am there’s no reason to spend 350.00 for a top of the line ZT when you can get essentially the same knife from Kershaw for 75.00-125.00.

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@wildrose hand size… not sure how to measure that. Going with ManHands… also known as “pretty big hands for a girl” :laughing:
For an idea, my Glock G21 .45 doublestack fits me just fine.
I think I need to spend some time in knife shops see what my hands love. I find the ones I have that I like best are almost all Benchmade, but I have one new Kershaw folder I like the grip on a lot.

If that’s the case be sure and look at TOP’s and Zero Tolerance.

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One of the nicest features of most Benchmade knives is their Axis lock. It won’t fold on your fingers even if your beating on the back spine of the blade. Avoid ‘liner lock’ knives. Quality frame locks are also good to avoid an unexpected closure on your fingers. The Zero Tolerance WildRose mentioned - the Ken Onion Speed Safe (spring assist) version is a very fast open high quality knife although the one I have is rather heavy. Other than the weight I like everything about it. Strider knives though they are even more rugged than the Zero Tolerance with their thicker blade tend to be lighter as they typically have a handle that is Titanium on one side and G10 on the other side. I haven’t kept up with the Zero Tolerance models as I’ve got one of their early 0300ST models which I believe has Titanium handles on both sides. Newer versions may be lighter.

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Everything @WildRose said about Kershaw is spot on here. Seconded.

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I own 11 ZT knives and trust me, they are anything but light. They are about as “robust” as a folding knife can be and most of them are liner locks. Nothing wrong with a liner lock knife as long as they are made right.

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The Zero Tolerance I have is a frame lock and I believe was a Strider / Onion / Kershaw collaboration. In terms of weight the ZT I’ve got is about half a pound. But the blade thickness is almost half as thick as the Strider knife I have while the Strider is lighter overall in weight. I haven’t found anything more rugged than a Strider except maybe the Medford Praetorian. In a pry bar contest the Strider is going the beat the Zero Tolerance :slightly_smiling_face:
Strider on the Left: (picture for me doesn’t fully show up unless you click on it)

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Since there are lots of places you can’t legally carry a gun, guns that malfunction, and criminals who can get to you before you get to a gun it’s a awfully good ideal to also plan and train for good empty handed skills and alternative tools as well.

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I do really like the ZT I’ve got - great knife. And wicked sharp. But between the thicker blade on the Strider and the overall lighter weight I found myself favoring the Strider over the ZT. Since I was shown what happens with a liner lock (which was a Kershaw but not a ZT) when you whack the spine hard enough I have never bought anything except frame locks and Axis lock knives. I realize for most purposes you won’t be whacking the back (spine) of an open knife but it’s a choice I’ve made since seeing what can happen - just in case I’ve ever got a knife in that situation. The metal in a frame lock is much thicker than any liner I’ve seen in a liner lock so to me it just makes sense to choose the frame lock over a liner lock.
The Strider SMF is a framelock folding knife that was specifically developed for Detachment 1, the first SOCOM unit of the United States Marine Corps. The Strider SMF was the first knife issued to an individual Marine Corps unit in over 60 years and the first tactical folder issued within the USMC. That’s why I believe in Strider and framelock knives.

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Let’s not forget the context here which is civilian self defense where a pry bar test does not apply.

Strider and Onion design many if not most of the ZT’s and they are more knife than 95% of people are ever going to want or need.

In reality, the Kershaws which are built even lighter as well as the Spyderco’s and several others are more than adequate for civilian SD purposes.

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I agree for self defense almost any knife will do. I actually would likely use a tactical pen over a knife if I had the chance and didn’t have access to my gun. Less problems legally with a pen than a knife. But I think if you are going to spend in the neighborhood of a hundred dollars or more you might as well get something that is useful in every way possible. I don’t really consider a knife a good self defense tool as I believe I mentioned earlier. For me it’s a multi use tool.

I remember reading the Forbes list of the 20 most important tools of all time. The number one tool was the knife! So to me it’s important that it can handle anything I throw at it. I will add for your side of the discussion regarding self defense that I knew a guy in the military who had spent time in the jungles of South America where he said the natives were more afraid of a knife than a gun. :smile: I’m guessing they don’t know what a good gun with a trained shooter can do though …

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I can take you to many neighborhoods in the US where the threat of a knife instills more fear than threatening someone with a gun as well.

Shooting someone carries such high penalties even if you miss most criminals will only use a gun to threaten with no intent to actually shoot you, or each other for that matter.

It’s always much more likely someone is going to stab or slash because of the lower penalties and just the perception.

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Hmmm. It’s interesting you brought up the difference in perception between a knife and a gun. I’ve had the impression that using a knife (if you do kill or do very serious injury to someone) would be perceived by a jury (if a knife user ends up in that situation) as a lot more brutal / psychopathic type of murder or injury than using a gun. Whereas using a gun is not up close and bloody but rather just a pull of the trigger from a distance. Clean but potentially deadly but you don’t always know if it will kill. Let’s assume you are minding your own business walking down a street and are attacked out of the blue by two thugs. They plan to beat you and steal everything you have on you. You fear for your life. You have a knife and get into it with both of them. However unless you are lucky you find that one stab didn’t stop them and since they are both on you you keep stabbing away. Typically it takes a lot of stabs to actually stop a person and both these guys are high on something and they aren’t stopping. By the time you get both of them enough times to stop their attack they both bleed out and die. When the police arrive and final assessment is done by the coroner they find 38 stabs to one person and 32 on the other. I realize if you are well trained and lucky you might take them down with one or two cuts but in a fight and especially if there are two bad guys that may not likely happen. How will that look to the police and a jury? Same scenario with a gun but you shoot one and he goes down. The other will probably flee from the sudden impact of the loud gun shot but if he doesn’t you shoot him too if he’s still attacking. They both die. You say you feared for your life in both cases. How will that be perceived? I really don’t know but I tend to think using a gun will likely be less trouble for your legally. What do you think? I do assume it will likely be different depending on which state your are in, local laws and local beliefs but in general what do you think? (The scenario was edited and changed to more correctly fit a real situation and to illustrate why I think a knife may be perceived as worse than a gun in some cases).

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I"m going to edit the above for readability and respond.

I’m not talking above about a jury but what the prosecutor is going to look at is “did he have a lawful use of deadly force”? The weapon or weapons used will be irrelevant.

If you find yourself facing a jury the same applies, yes a knife is more personal and gory but both the law and the jury instructions will be the same whether you use your fists and feet, knife, baseball bat, or gun.

What I am talking about is the perception on the street as to the likelihood of you using the tool you brought to the fight and how criminals reason.

They don’t see you as a law abiding self defender and weigh your actions or likely actions based on the force continuum or law, they will see you as they see themselves and each other.

When it comes to juries again there’s a huge anti gun bias in much of the country where there is no such anti knife bias and that may well come into play with a jury as well.

Remember all it takes is one vote to acquit out of the six or twelve on the jury to keep you out of prison and in most jurisdictions you’ll always be able to find one person who will simply take the facts and the law and weigh your guilt or innocence against them.

Did you have a reasonable fear of grave bodily harm or death justifying the use of deadly force?

Was the level of force used reasonable by the “Reasonable Person Standard”?

Were you lawfully present and acting in a lawful manner at the time leading up to the incident and during same?

Did you stop using that force appropriately when the threat was eliminated?

That’s really all that matters in court provided of course your atty’s did a decent job of picking a jury.

Best way to avoid a jury? Do all you can to avoid ever using deadly force and when you do make dead sure you do so in a lawful and appropriate manner.

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