I don’t believe I made any claims that AOR did or did not say anything. I stated that those are false claims I have seen on social media including YouTube. Because I have.
Nobody has ever had to pay their defense expenses back, across thousands of members that have used that aspect of membership, across over two decades of USCCA existing. Nobody, ever. You can spin “never happened” how you want, but…it’s never happened
Why would I have to offer you someone who is not in business to make a profit when comparing them to an entity that is in business to make a profit? Make it make sense. There is nothing wrong with a business pointing out flaws or potential flaws with a competitor. Doing so doesn’t make them liars or dishonest. USCCA is in business to make money and there are just as many companies who are in business to make money that inflate their values and resources as there are companies who lie to smear and deflate a competitor’s value. It works both ways my friend.
Because of that?
If every single option available that is any way like this membership, is all a for profit business…what good does it do to say, option A is a for profit business so I am not going with them, I am going with option __ which is also a for profit business?
Make it make sense
And I don’t believe I accused you of saying AOR did or did not say anything. I’m simply stating they have never made those claims that I’m aware of. As far as anyone paying back their expenses, it’s been stated that they could have to, if asked, and not that they have had to because they were asked. Never happened so far is not the same as could happen no matter how you would like to spin that.
If you cannot recognize that you and I both pay for the service because it is a for profit business, and that all for profit business do not offer the same things or in this case the same levels of protection, then I’m sorry because there is nothing, I can say to simplify it more than that and make it make sense to you. So, I guess we can agree to disagree at this point.
So the hangup you are expressing isn’t that the business is for profit, it’s that you found an alternative for profit business you believe offers you more for the money?
Do you mind sharing what you are going with instead and what it offers that is better than the USCCA membership?
Somewhat unrelated, but got me thinking about how glad I am that I have some coverage. But also how I need to continue with my education and training.
In the April 2024, issue of USCCA magazine, both electronic and paper version, on page 49, there is a very brief write up titled “INSIDE THE PENITENTIARY”, by Dorsey Kindler. It’s a story about someone who reports he used self defense, ended up spending some time in prison, but then finally prevailed in court.
He talks about what life was like there and how he survived. I would encourage everyone to please read that.
Separately, I’m not religious myself, but I noticed on the video series “Active Self Protection”, all they do is review countless of SD events and the presenter talks about being Spiritually Prepared. I wondered, what the heck does that even mean. Then it dawned on me. It’s something I have read some of you shared that you already do, that is each and every day, when you make peace with those people around you, tell them that you love them, hug them and try not to let a day go by that you did not tell them what you wanted to. And to leave your positive mark on this earth, that you made a difference/made things better - because you never know when your last day will come.
Yes John at ASP says that, especially the ones where the good guy/defender dies.
That’s…the most difficult one to follow if I’m honest
I’m still a USCCA member and I found an alternative that offers something different than what USCCA offers, not necessarily more. I’m just stating facts that many of the views offered by those alternatives such as AOR are absolutely true. If they weren’t true, they would be getting sued for libel and or slander. And even then, they would need to be found guilty of those charges before anyone could determine if their assessments of USCCA are unfounded.
Is this an example of something you believe to be accurate that is being shared on social media?
WHO are these people?
Yes, the USCCA is not an insurance company but a major portion of their benefits which are used to entice people to join are provided by an insurance company. My attorney is not a law firm and yet one of the main benefits of hiring him was the law firm that backs him and provides he and myself resources we would not have were he in solo practice. You’re speaking semantics brother.
You can start looking with Kayla Giles and see what else you can find. And beforehand I don’t care what the results of her case and lawsuit were since that is not the topic being discussed. The topic is people whose coverage was dropped and not the outcome of their cases.
Like I said.
The only two examples given on social media are alan (who was never denied), and Kayla, who committed premeditated murder in 2018. That’s all I have ever seen.
So…one not denied or dropped…one who got $50k (which was not paid back) before being shut off because evidence clearly indicated she committed pre mediated murder.
Membership benefits are not for pre planned murder, please do not expect all of your defense expenses and appeals to be paid for if you commit premeditated murder as Kayla did.
Are there any actual examples of an act of self defense by a member who was denied??
The topic is members who acted in self defense
It’s not for premeditated murder, and as far as I can tell that 6 years ago premeditated murderer is the only “example” given on social media.
You yourself above said there have been “people” who were not covered…is the premeditated murderer Kayla, singular, the only example you have seen?
You seem to be intent on making a point using semantics. Answer this question yourself. Does USCCA have the right to drop anyone they wish if they deem that person committed a crime? Yes or No? If USCCA doesn’t have the right to do so then why have they not sued their competition in court for slander for saying so? I’ve answered more than enough of your questions so now try answering mine.
No semantics whatsoever…people make claims on social media commonly, such as you did in this thread, that people are being denied/dropped…but that is never substantiated. Alan was not dropped or denied, and Kayla again was dropped after evidence clearly indicated she committed premeditated murder (six years ago). Even if you want to claim that murderers like Kayla should be offered full membership benefits for the legal aftermath, that would still be person singular. You said people are being dropped…is Kayla, the premeditated murderer that evidence clearly indicated was premeditated murder, the only example you have?
USCCA doesn’t cover or drop anybody, doesn’t make coverage determinations, and doesn’t deem whether or not a person committed a crime.
When evidence clearly indicates a person committed a premeditated violent crime, such as premeditated murder, they will not be covered because that is not self defense. This coverage determination is made by UFCIC.
It is for self defense
You haven’t answered the WHO yet.
Is it lonely in that rabbit hole?
As I thought you are going out of your way to not answer the questions I asked and bring up specific incidents. You won’t answer the question directly with a yes or no which is just another way of answering the question while trying to avoid the question. I appreciate the answer even if it was not a direct one.
So, what if the insurance is managed by a different entity? It’s still packaged with a USCCA membership. Like I said, semantics. Arguing the semantics of whether or not USCCA is an actual insurance company is ridiculous as we all know that USCCA is not the underwriter of the insurance policy they package with their memberships to every single last member. They’re not insurance agents either but they sure as hell promote the insurance policies underwritten for them and their product. That is also semantical.
My narrative is that the insurance benefits provided with a USCCA membership can be dropped by the underwriters at any time just like your auto and home insurers can drop you at anytime legally without repercussion. That is a legal fact that you keep trying to avoid with semantics because it doesn’t fit your narrative.