Who’s character? Mr. Pretti inserted himself into the situation that led to his death. So, where does your character question start? Do I think he should have died? No, I don’t, but he put himself in that position. He could have protested on the sidewalk where most of the others were. He walked down the street where he was apparently directing nonexistent traffic and put himself there. Stupid move! Then intervened and treated the ICE officer like a civilian harassing a woman. Stupid move! At that point he was pepper sprayed and taken to the ground. Good move by ICE.
Then, here comes the grey man. He is actively searching Pretti for a weapon, finds one and removes it from the scrum. As he was doing that, someone yelled gun and one of the ICE officers fired a shot. Again, I ask “Who’s character?” Probably a second later, gunfire erupted. From whom, I don’t know. Again, I ask “Who’s character?”
The way I see it, up until after the first shot was fired, I put the problem with character on Pretti. He was wrong inserting himself into the operation. After that, I am not sure. I would like to think that one shot would have stopped it all but do not know that to be a fact. I would like to think the first shot would have been avoided by seeing the grey man remove the gun but I do not know that either.
There was a relatively long pause, maybe a second, between the first shot and the second. That is the only place I see that character could have been inserted into the ICE operation. Should he have died? I truly don’t think so but then again, with gun being yelled and gun fire going off, it is too late at that point. In the end, he shouldn’t have been where he was at!
It is a “General” question to individuals that post here: Who are you, and do you as a person believe this is ok? Is this amount of force justified? Only one person here was hurt, and he was murdered on the ground covered in pepper spray.
I am @Robert1246 . Given this situation yes this amount of force is justified under the law. In a perfect world no it is not justified. If we all loved each other no one would have to carry a gun in self defense of someone else.
I am @Jerzees and I haven’t been drinking for over 2 years now.
My first rule is - do not mess with local nor federal law enforcement officers doing their jobs… unless you are willing to be punished for your negligent actions. As simple as that.
Amount of force needed is an amount needed to detain a person and restrict it from criminal activity. Doesn’t matter it’s 1-1, 1-2 or 1-10. It’s always as many Officers as needed in certain situation.
And please do not assume murder if murder wasn’t proven yet.
You know, I would agree with not calling it murder if these factors were not met.
Forensic evidence that shows shots were fired into an already helpless or incapacitated victim can demonstrate intent to kill, rather than just self-defense. Excessive Force: While legal doctrine often allows shooting until a threat is neutralized, evidence that a shooter continued firing after the threat ceased (e.g., the victim was down and unarmed) can change a self-defense claim into a murder charge.
The videos I have seen clearly show these conditions were met.
This is why I remain confident it was murder.
Why or how he got himself into this situation no longer has any bearing on the definition of murder. When he is down with all those officers around him and has been disarmed.
I am a member of the USCCA just like you. My position on the shooting was fairly well provided. The courts will decide if it was murder or not. Personally, I think ten shots is more than I would take but my position on it is as stated.
I do not believe this to be true as stated above and why. It escalated beyond reasonable expectations.
Personally, I have a reasonable expectation that disagreeing with the government will not lead to my death unless Don is in charge.
You know what you do not see? Tear gas, mace, bull horns, rape whistles, car horns blaring, rioting, destroyed police vehicles, and the rest of the non-sense that we see at these anti-ICE “protests”.
I don’t think it has anything to do with Don, unless you mean Donald Trump. He is the one trying to remove the chaos from America. The people trying to stop him from removing the chaos are putting their lives in danger. When one puts their life in danger shit happens and it did. Hopefully a lesson was learned by all and this doesn’t keep happening over and over again.
He also damaged an ICE vehicle a week ago, and in that video, his CC pistol was visible, and he was not shot. The same nonsense was happening as in the incident he died. People ostructing ICE officers, honking horns, shouting, rape whistles, etc. Only difference, he did not impede law enforcement after he was pushed away.
It was just a crack on Don not Trump. He desires the deaths of too many people.
Right now we are engaged in the court of opinions. Just like in a real court, it is amusing to see how far people will go to justify killing someone. All the bullshit they will use to defend their actions or those of others. Instead of going to look, they normally do a fine job, but in this instance, they were wrong; this went too far.
The very same people who bitch about holding others accountable. for their actions, then say, “Look what they did here, so we get to murder this guy.” It appears their heads are so full of shiat and propaganda.
Hey @Robert1246 to use the defense that the other day he had a weapon and did this. I would certainly bury this person in court. One, the officers in question had no prior knowledge of this event, so they had no expectations. They acted that day on of their own accord. that was my fundamental question: do you view the world equally or through a bias? I would personally also hold Petti accountable, but he is dead.
My concern is not who to blame. My concern is how not to let this happen again. What I am having trouble with is what makes someone what to put their life in danger to protest. I can not agree with that point of view.
If I’m a law enforcement officer, for my personal safety I’m looking at others without any trust. Let’s add to this situation another person, who is acting against me. My perception changes from “no trust” to “viewing through a bias” for sure.
It’s easy to judge someone from the chair in front of monitor… to make a proper judgement you must put yourself in his situation at that moment.
Agreed. My point was about whether he should have died (been murdered) for his actions. Does this rise to the level of being executed? I want to know how you view this. What worries me is there are people out there more than happy to blame him because of his actions and then not hold ICE accountable for theirs. This is the divide that concerns me about this whole issue.
Personal note: if you have read much of what I have written in the past, you will see I am pro-A2 and pro-law enforcement. This in no way excuses abuse or any wrongdoing. To me, I am not looking at events with a bias, but you can see that people like Dave definitely possess one. This comment is in no way directed at you; it is meant for clarification.
I am looking for clarification too. Clarification as to how to prevent this from happening again. The way I see it is to have the people protesting on the sidewalk away from ICE agents. If ICE goes up on the sidewalk and starts harassing protesters yeah ICE would be in the wrong. I would say not to let ICE interfere with protesters. What happened IDK and it doesn’t matter to me because I have no say in the matter. Common sense tells me the ones that are interfering are the ones that need to be stopped.
Part of protesting is civil disobedience, however protestors need to accept responsibility for their civil disobedience. In a peaceful protest citizens will perform civil disobedience, this can be done by blocking traffic, or performing a sit in. The correct response to this civil disobedience is to perform an arrest for blocking traffic or trespassing. It becomes a problem when Federal agents begin beating protestors or using chemical agents on the protestors before trying to arrest such protestor. Using violence on protestors who are committing civil disobedience will quickly lead to civil unrest, which is what we are seeing today. I have zero issues with the Government arresting protestors and charging them for whatever misdemeanor they were committing. I do have issues when the first response to a protest is batons and chemical agents.
An example is those protesting abortion clinics, if they are blocking access to the clinic the correct response is for the police to arrest them. The incorrect response is for the Police to walk up and begin dousing everyone with pepper spray and then begin beating them with batons.
First… he wan’t executed. He was shot.
Should have he died? No, but his action didn’t prevent him from being detained and firearm usage was a result of unfortunate events happened in short time, plus the normal behavior / habits I usually expect from Law Enforcement Agents.
Do I justify shooting by these words? No, I just understand how both sides acted and reacted. Both sides made a lot of mistakes, but Pretti chose bad route with his actions what resulted with other side’s reaction.
Pretti’s action was not needed, ICE’s reaction was just result of their training.
