YES, this is a concern

I would ask, why not fight for your innocence.

A plea bargain is still an admission of guilt. You might get time served, probation, and no additional jail time, but you are still marked as guilty and you will forever have that on your record.

If you are innocent, never accept any offer from a corrupt prosecutor… if they think they have enough to convict, prove it in court.

All plea bargains are an admission of guilt.

If your state prosecutes self defense, I would suggest moving or at least suing the state, and ensuring each election you seek better Representation.


So you would expect USCCA to be at 300?, 500? gun shows a year? At the expense of travel, vendor fees, table fees?

That seems excessive.


Here is an idea for everyone.

Read over what @MikeBKY just posted, read over the membership information, read over everything, and if you do not like it, drop the membership… if it sounds like a good deal, keep the membership.



In my situation, I’m 64, fighting a rare cancer-- I’m terminal (I’m supposed to be dead now), I’ll fight to the last. This is one reason cops don’t scare me nor intimidate me. But what about those much younger with much more to loose ?? If they can end it all without losing any rights, why not plea bargain??? Liberals are the problem… not law-abiding gun owners.


First, depending on the plea bargain, you might end up with a felony, or a misdemeanor that somehow impacts your right to carry.
You MIGHT be free, and able to go home that night, but what happens in the future. Will they come for you and lock you up later… will your employment be impacted, will your promotion be impacted, and if you have that on your record, can you freely travel from state to state, and if your job requires you to travel, you might lose that job.

Always fight for your freedom and innocence.


Of course not, let’s be realistic here. I what I find interesting is the response that I received that they do action via local associations with gun dealers here in AZ. Didn’t see them at any of the shows either.

My brother agreed to a plea bargain on a DZuI charge that resulted in them tagging on a felony charge. It screwed him over for life. Finding jobs became nearly impossible

I know what the fine print says, and understand it is part of the contract I have with the USCCA. I pay them an agreed upon sum of money, in exchange for membership. A benefit of said membership, is legal assistance if, God forbid, I ever have to resort to violence to defend human life. I have no intention of “taking a deal.” If I resorted to violence, then I feel I’m justified.

Look at it this way. A sponsor puts up money to pay expenses, training, etc for a prize fighter. During the fight, the promoter offers the fighter to get to go home, but, it will be counted as a loss. If the fighter leaves now, he saves his body from further beating. Or, he can continue the beating, giving him the opportunity to fight back, and possibly win, and his sponsor still offering to pay the medical bills afterwards.

Will you take a beating, and fight for what you believe is right? Or will you surrender?


I think what the company is trying to protect themselves from are the situations where the insured person is actually looking for a fight. One recent case was where a man confronted a woman parking in a handy cap spot husband comes out of store pushes him down, he comes up shooting.
It’s not his place to be the handy cap police.

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So you can’t insure politicians?:rofl:


I’m sure to you that all sounds feasible…but to those of us unable to freely move because we don’t agree with some state’s law…we’re here for a while. Why? Because I have a daughter with the devil and our dissolution prevents me from moving outside the local county without major issues. Basically I’m here till my kid is 18 even though both my wife, my daughter, and I would love to move…sadly my ex wife wouldn’t. Therefore, I won’t be moving anytime soon.

As for plea bargains…I love your naïve perspective but in law, sometimes it’s better to take the plea than risk everything regardless of whether you’re innocent or not. Some of us have a lot more depending on us than ourselves so we can’t gamble with the odds.

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I love your lack of courage and conviction…
You surrender yourself, and admit a guilt that you are not guilty of. That is naïveté

Some of us do have a lot more depending on us…
There are considerations such as career… do you want that job that pays more? Do you want that promotion? Do you want to be able to travel freely, for work or vacation…

You think a plea bargain gives you total freedom without any consequences?

If… IF… you are guilty, you may choose to take a lessor charge… but if you are innocent, why admit guilt and have a permanent record stating you are guilty.

If you can not move, that is at times something that is beyond one’s control… or you could seek recourse in the courts, especially if you can prove a benefit such as a better paying job with would allow for better care of your child…


Don’t be so damn hard on him. A plea bargain may be the right choice depending on his/her and family’s state of mind. I agree with you. But that’s for us.

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Not trying to be hard on anyone, but …

Personally, I hate being accused of something I did not do and would fight it without hesitation.


You and me both.

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Bud, just stop. You already are giving me that “crazy internet tough guy” vibe and you’re acting like it’s you against the world and it’s not.

  1. The definition of naive is: showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment. You were certainly showing a lack of judgement and wisdom in our previous conversation.
  2. I don’t know anything about you and vice versa. Therefore, you suggesting I lack courage or conviction is both erroneous and ignorant. I suggested I might be faced with taking a plea deal because I accept that this option is plausible. That’s not to say I would admit to any guilt if I don’t have to…only that I understand it’s a possibility. You refuse to accept it without a second thought which makes you arrogant and naive by definition. You have no clue what the circumstances might be or what you could be facing so it IS naive to stand on your soap box and tell me how you’d deal with that hypothetical situation if it were you and the truth is…it’s all hyperbole. Until we’re faced with the circumstance directly…we won’t know what choices we’ll make.
  3. there are no absolutes. In my state/city…discharging a firearm is a misdemeanor. Therefore, as an educated person I can recognize that while I may have been forced to defend myself and shoot someone in “self defense”, there are other laws that I could and would likely face as well including discharging a firearm in city limits. So while I may have to plead guilty of that charge, I by no means am admitting to any guilt for defending myself.

Frankly, I really don’t care what you do with your life so you go and live it as you see fit. Have a wonderful weekend and I hope you have a nice holiday because I don’t plan on engaging with you again. cheers.


It is also a deal breaker for me. With the anti-gun sentiment in this country today a guilty plea or outright conviction is almost a guaranteed outcome. This pay-back scenario is like your car insurance fixing your car after an accident & sending you a bill for the covered damages. I too will be contacting Mr. Schmidt for confirmation.

Dude, get over yourself.

You are the one that went full blown internet tough guy with your little naive comment.

Have a great day and do as you please.

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This guy makes it seem like licensed concealed carriers are convicted 90% of the time. I find that hard to believe. I would believe that ‘guilty’ people plea bargain to get reduced sentences. I have believed that one reason the USCCA provides training and all the extra information, including things by Tom Grieve is to teach us to be more knowledgeable legally and there by less likely to have a questionable shoot.

I have been with the USCCA for three or four years, it might be nice to hear a rebuttal, and to see if this isn’t the case with most “self defense” insurances. I was reading in one of them that a panel would review the case before funding your defense. Others pay after your found innocent or charges are dropped. I won’t just jump ship because of this video.

USCCA isn’t perfect, I wish they had clothes for tall men.


I don’t doubt that Mark Victor may be exaggerating his point, but, to me, it doesn’t matter if 10% or 90% of true self-defense are found guilty, my bigger concern is that is a person with USCCA is in a self defense situation in a liberal, law hating, Constitution hating location and is found guilty that he/she can then be sued to recoup legal costs. If it is a bad shoot and the person pleads or is found guilty-- then fine… but not the innocent caught in a no win situation.

I think USCCA’s training is great, and their training staff is top tier and if we are going to carry we should be learning all the time. I drill this into my son, daughter, wife and those I help with gun safety and purchases.