Why you need training

This is why we need training and to talk to those we live with if we are going to be early or late or try to enter by a different door. :anguished:

Ex-college football player shot, killed his mother at their Missouri home thinking she was an intruder (msn.com)

A former college football player mistakenly shot and killed his mother at the home they shared in Missouri because he suspected she was an intruder when she tried to enter through the back door, according to his attorney.

Jaylen Johnson, 25, was charged with voluntary manslaughter and armed criminal action in connection with the death of his mother, 56-year-old Monica Johnson-McNichols, Olivette police said in a news release. His bail was set at $100,000.

Johnson’s attorney, William Goldstein, told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that Johnson mistakenly believed his mother was an intruder when she attempted to enter their home in Olivette, Missouri, at around 7:30 a.m. Thursday.
“He hasn’t stopped crying,” Goldstein said.

Johnson’s girlfriend attempted life-saving efforts on his mother, as did paramedics when they arrived at the home, but Johnson-McNichols was pronounced dead at the scene.

Goldstein said Johnson immediately called 911 after shooting his mother, adding that he has been distraught since the incident.
Johnson, a former college football player who is employed and has no criminal history, kept a gun for protection after he had previously been robbed at gunpoint.

“It’s just tragic,” Goldstein told FOX 2 St. Louis. “Jaylen loved his mother, and his mother loved him.”

The incident remains under investigation.

Original article source: Ex-college football player shot, killed his mother at their Missouri home thinking she was an intruder

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This is not the first and I’m guessing not the last unnecessary death.
Kids shoot parents, parents shoot children, adults shoot spouses… it’s neverending tragedy. :anguished:

People think that gun is a solution for everything and unfortunately find the truth the hard way.

I would use this as another example, why firearm training should be mandatory… but I’m guessing this is gonna open can of worms… :grimacing:
At least such training is mandatory in my home. :upside_down_face:

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IMG_3807

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Seriously, I agree that everyone, especially newbies, get classroom/training. Owning/buying a firearm for the first time is a whole different and higher mindset when it comes to using these tools for the intent of using them for self-defense. It’s a higher level/learning responsibility to handle these firearms.

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Training

Because not everyone has common sense :roll_eyes:

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Yeah…proposing gun control has a way of opening those cans

Training is great, everyone should choose to get it.

But, it’s their choice.

Shall not be infringed is in the Bill of Rights for a reason, and it means what it says

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I agree with Nathan. Mandatory training is an infringement, and I’m kind of an absolutist WRT our rights.

Bruce makes the right point, and it’s a horrible, tragic story. I can’t imagine the grief, and now the consequences for that guy and his whole family. Mandatory or not, everyone DOES need training, and to communicate with family members about safety protocols in the household.

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I mean, it’s either a Right, or it’s a privilege.

If you have to get permission from the government before you can keep and bear arms, it’s not a Right…let alone an uninfringed Right.

I have yet to find someone who can explain to me how mandated training would even work.

A federal database of gun owners who have taken a federally mandated class that may or not may not be available or affordable? And you have to carry your proof of training card (issued by the ATF, surely) with you to possess a gun, buy a gun, etc?

It would clearly have to be federal, leaving it up to the states very few states are going to require permission slips to exercise a Right as fundamental as owning a firearm in your own home.

It would also clearly have to be a curriculum approved by the government, probably taught by government-approved instructors, completion/passing would have to be recorded/registered.

Talk about an easy peasy national registry of gun owners: This is it

Well, the gun owners who had the time and the money and the capability to prove to the federal government that they are deserving of this privilege

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The real answer is to teach basic firearm safety in high school, but people would lose their minds over that. We can teach sexual safety, and kids have to take it whether they’re having sex or not, but firearm safety would trigger too many idiots, so we as a society bury our heads in the sand, pretend GFZ signs work, and hope a unicorn will fly by and make all the bad guys stop stealing guns and shooting good people.

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This is the way.

But here is where we unequivocally see that the political/group pushes for mandatory training are not about safety, they are about control.

If it was about safety, this would be such an easy answer. But it’s not about safety or education, it’s about registration, control, limitations being applied to The People

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Exactly. If we as a whole country really wanted to dramatically reduce murders committed by gun, we could do it in a matter of a couple years, I think. Mandatory stiff sentences for possession of a stolen gun (no ability to plead it away) would be a good start. Use a gun in a robbery? Again, 10 extra years, no pleading it away. Mandatory safety education in high-school. Eliminate all gun control and GFZ. Criminals hate getting shot. This is really not hard, it’s just that half the population doesn’t want the problem to go away.

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Completely agree though I would start around kindergarten with don’t touch - go tell an adult training and progress on up through the four safety rules to legal issues, etc as kids progress through the grades.

That would save lives and help prevent tragic accidents.

This particular incident also makes another strong argument for retreating to a safe room when possible if you believe someone is actively breaking into your home. Going to engage the threat can put yourself and others at unnecessary risk.

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I agree with all your points but I am a bit leary of mandatory requirements that leave no room open for judgement due to the circumstances involved. I think strong sentencing guidelines that require distinct reasoning with strong supporting evidence in order to sentence outside of them is a better route.

For instance what if you purchase a firearm from a neighbor who purchased it from someone else and had no idea it was stolen. Would suck to have to spend time in jail and loose your right to ever own firearms again for doing something you could have no way of knowing was a crime.

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I was thinking the same thing. Stiff mandatory sentences for possession of a stolen gun would essentially wipe out private sales for anyone who doesn’t want to risk prison due to the gun’s unknowable history. Would make most of us voluntary register our guns/selves, essentially, by insisting on doing all transfers through an FFL with a background check and the serial number of the gun being run against a stolen database + registered to us as having done so to “prove” we did everything we could to KNOW it wasn’t reported stolen

And even then, it could potentially be reported stolen by a prior owner after that, and if it’s a “mandatory” sentence, you’d still go to prison for possessing it.

Mandatory is almost always a bad thing because the real world has so many variables

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You folks are correct in a lot of ways. But anymore federal ‘Intervention’----read Intrusion and Infringement would just muddy the waters so bad and probably not garner a single life saved.
More Fee’s, More classes, More Mandatory crap. Another card in the wallet you have to renew etc…
(and just for the record I’m really not anti-.gov, stop laughing! I’m Anti-Bad, Corrupt, EVIL.gov)
The thing with all this is If you have Freedom, and Free Will, you leave it up to the people to make good choices. Free Will has CONSEQUENCES. You choose to protect yourself with a firearm and you decide NOT to take classes , NOT get together with people in the same household, Not lock up your guns if you have small children and on and on it goes THIS^^^^^ is what can happen.
The Tragic part of this is he apparently shot his Mom when his life wasn’t in danger (yet)
Not knowing the details I will refrain from serious comment but he obviously PANICKED. Having been
robbed previously (and probably not a lick of training that is a perfect storm of Bad SH** happens)
Having a gun out of FEAR is deadly to INNOCENTS. If you don’t TRAIN-UP you see shadows, you see Monsters and in the dark it just gets worse. Training erases those fears (usually).
I’ve ‘Helped’ some people get started in firearms ownership-usage to get them over the hump of that
Scary Black Guns Fear that Demoncrats put in their heads. Once that fear is gone I hear A LOT! oh, is that it? or even better ‘This is really cool, fun, How do I get a CCW?’ Once that ice is broken I turn them over to the Pro’s that I know will complete the job and not mess them up back to square one again.
This poor kid is screwed for life now. His mom is gone forever and he did it. That is a Prison in the mind I don’t wish on my enemies (well, the towel/Bandana headed guy’s maybe) But he may end up taking his own life over this. (That’s really projecting but if he is the sensitive kid this article makes him out to be not beyond the realm of possibilities).
The thing I try and convey and hope to God it sinks in is ‘YOU CAN’T TAKE A BULLET BACK ONCE FIRED!’
If people GET THAT it is easier for them to understand this is serious sh** and not a toy. This is something Alec Baldwin learned but my views on him are and what he did was on purpose and intentional and not an accident. See, I went there anyway…sorry.
I hope with this tragedy some one learns a lesson.
If some Innocent has to die maybe some good can come out of it.

Mi dos pesos.
WWG1WGA

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Mandatory firearm training has nothing to do with gun control.
(We mandatorily do carry ID on ourselves… which can be considered and identity control)…
But this is not the case.

We already discussed it on 2 or so other threads, so no reason to repeat it once again.
School, after school, range class… anything that engraves in firearms owner’s brain the proper information how to handle, use and think about the owned firearm is the way it should go.

I’m far away from gun control… but giving people tool without explanation how to use it, or thinking that people know how to use it the proper way is not good.

We use to say: “Freedom Is Not Free”. We all know this quote applies to all who scarify their lives for our Freedom. But this also can be used for everyday’s life. For regular civilians who live their peaceful lives. You cannot have Freedom guaranteed by Constitution without scarifying your time.

I want the firearm, because this is my right to have it (no particular reason why I need it). But when I’m using this right I know I have to learn how to carefully and responsibly use this firearm.
That is my Freedom that I earn with my accountability. I don’t take anything only because I can. I take what I need and I learn how to use it in my live. It’s not control at all. It is a willing of acceptance to be responsible and fair to yourself and others.

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We haven’t yet discussed how it would work. It’s just a general, vague idea so far

Nobody is “giving” anybody anything. Allowing people the freedom and Liberty to acquire a gun without prior government permission isn’t “giving” them anything, it is simply not-infringing on them.

It’s not your Right to have a firearm if you must seek and receive explicit prior permission from the government. That’s not a Right, that is a privilege. That’s not a Liberty, that’s not Freedom.

Just say no to gun control

The Right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed

I know, I know, I am quoting the Second Amendment and that isn’t always an accepted source. But, it is. (and it is what it is for a good reason)

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Maybe he thought it was okay to shoot people for trespass? Which of course it’s not, and this is an example of why that is

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So true

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I was a Shotgun instructor for Boy Scouts.
There was a time, long ago, when kids grew up on farms and hunting was a common thread----knowledge was passed down from generation to generation.
Military Service and riflery were also common experiences.
Not so today.
Most people learn about guns from video games and movies/TV.
That can be a dangerous combination.

Teach your kids how to shoot and (with permission) teach your kid’s friends how to shoot.
BBs and .22 lrs are still cheap enough and you’ll be instilling firearms safety practices that may prevent a tragedy someday.

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