Why Hate on PCCs?

I’ve seen hate twards Pistol Caliber Carbines in multiple places. The most noticeable was Clint Smith from Thunder Ranch. He said get a rifle or get a pistol, don’t mess around in the middle ) cleaned up the language.

I’m a big Clint Smith fan, but that doesn’t mean I agree with everything he’s said. I’ve seen PCCs perform pretty well online. You get higher velocity, you can use the same ammo from your pistol (and often share mags), you get decent range.

Just curious.

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It’s not that they have no value. It’s that they’re the Dodge Rampage of firearms.

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Besides looking into purchasing an AR15 soon I also looked into a carbine myself and they make good home defense weapons according to some reviews I viewed. Yes and you can use 9mm ammo, my favorite caliber.

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Although I do not own one I have a friend who does. He lives in an apartment complex and bought a CZ 9mm Carbine for self defense figuring it would be less likely to over penetrate walls. I am sure it will still penetrate a wall but not going to go as far as a 7.62x45 Green Tip. I think it was a responsible consideration.

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In my opinion the hate comes from some PCC owners thinking they’re rifles. At the end of the day it’s still a pistol caliber. However I believe they have a nitch that they fill very well, and are a very viable option for people. Some of the reasons have been mentioned above.

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Have a 9mm carbine like that. Also 10mm makes a lot of sense to me. And just because any ar pistol or draco.

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I have the Ruder PCC 9mm. It is smooth, accurate, and a sweet shooting carbine. It is just the thing for those times I need to reach out 100 yards where my pistols effectiveness is just not there. I know it is not a hunting rifle, nor was I out to buy one when I purchased this carbine. Everyone who has tried this carbine has loved it.
Unfortunately, since I bought mine; the prices has nearly doubled.

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If you ask me, it is SBRs that are questionable, nothing wrong with PCCs.

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Just curious why you think SBR’s are questionable?

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I am a Clint Smith fan as well and I see what he is saying. What is the advantage of a PCC? So you can shoot 100 yards better with a pistol cartridge? So…why not make the same shot with a .223 or other rifle round. You basically have all the limitations of a pistol cartridge (Yea, look at the ballistics of what the pistol cartridge is capable of doing when it finally gets to 100 yards) with the size limitations of a rifle. So, if you want the size, take the size with a cartridge that is much better in a fight. Simple. Cause as I have said in a prior post in a different thread, all pistols and their cartridges are compromises. So, why keep the compromises in a rifle-size package? All that said, I have a Wilson Combat AR9G with an EOtech and with a suppressor and it is just good fun to shoot. But just because I have fun shooting it doesn’t make Clint wrong. At the same time, something like a 300 blackout in an AR pistol configuration is much better than a PCC.

As for the comments directly above on SBR’s, the only thing questionable about SBR’s is that they are an NFA item. How does that make sense? You can have a pistol without a tax stamp that is much easier to conceal, yet if it meets a set of arbitrary rules (like the failed Clinton/Biden gun control act) it suddenly gains some magical powers? Nope, its just further infringement on our second amendment rights.

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I haven’t made the jump yet but this configuration is the best overall home defense/Truck gun. It doesn’t do it all but what it can do nothing would do it better

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But instead of stocking 4 or 5 different calibers in my house, I keep only 2. No ammo mix-ups, now being caught unaware that I am out of a certain caliber, and it is possible to find the common caliber around when it all goes south. While others are trying to scramble to find their 300 blackout, I’ll be back in business. Its logistics as well as a carbine that has proved to be accurate at the distance that is reasonable.
This whole question simply sounds like another Sig VS Glock thing one people got tired of 9mm VS 45.

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Your concerns with the availability of 300 blackout is exactly why I haven’t added one to my options. I’ve kept the commonality to 4 calibers. (22lr,380, 9mm, 223)

I think the PCC vs Pistol length AR/AK vs SBR debate could be much more productive then 9mm vs 45 or Glock vs Sig. Though I understand the comparison as people will have very strong opinions about the topic.

For some people a PCC is a great option, if I lived in a more urban environment I would seriously consider one. However I live in a much more rural area where over penatration isn’t as big of a concern.

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I have a PCC that uses all but a few of my Glock magazines. The Keltec Sub 2000 is light and compact and can be carried in a backpack without ever being noticed. It is more accurate at longer ranges than my Glock 26 or 19 and is much quieter than the pistols and significantly quieter than any rifle rounds.
It meets my needs.

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Short explanation - wasting propellant energy does not seem like a good idea to me.

A 223 round optimized for 16’ barrel fired from 11" barrel is wasteful. On the other hand, a 9mm round optimized for 4" barrel fired from 11" barrel uses propellant energy more efficiently. SBR will still be more powerful than a PCC, but why bother… One can envision a derringer loaded with 50BMG too.

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One of the best options on the market IMO. Also folds without separating in 2 parts, which you could drop/misplace. Aesthetics could use some improvement though :slight_smile:

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My understanding of the 223 round you really only lose efficiency at the farther distances. I don’t intend on using my AR pistol more than 100yds. I have a rifle for longer distances. But as a truck gun and for legal reason having an AR Pistol is much easier than a rifle.

Not trying to convince you of anything just my 2 cents.

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I like the idea of the PCC because in a get home situation you are only carrying one caliber of ammo. In that situation you shouldn’t be shooting at something that far away from you unless they are shooting at you. Ounces add up. When you are carrying in on your back or on a belt. That is the use I envision a PCC for.

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My understanding of ballistics of each round is cursory, so I may as well be wrong. There is a reason why 6.8SPC was created.
We make do with a)what fits into your daily toolkit b)affordable to buy and train with; c)ergonomic. Not surprising, a pistol guy does not want to add another caliber and will choose a PCC and a rifle aficionado will choose an SBR.

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I will readily admit that both Glock and Keltec do not have the flair of most other firearms! That said, I have never had a weapon failure with either manufacturer related to the firearm itself!

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