Virginia to OUTLAW Krav Maga, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, kickboxing, Tai Chi,

@CascadiaNow I did read the bill itself and while it doesn’t specifically call out martial arts and firearms training, I do see how it could be used to include those.

The problem with this sort of thing is that while the authors may SAY that’s not what it’s for, and they may not even INTEND for it to be used that way, it still could be APPLIED that way. We’ve certainly seen plenty of examples of that - everything from the “gun use” enhancement on crimes applied to border patrol agents to tax laws applied to organized crime. The rule of unintended consequences applies, and someone with an agenda will make use of that.

Even when I take my tinfoil hat off, I can see this is ripe for abuse as written. I have no faith that people can be trusted to do the right thing once its passed.

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Michael, no, I did not vote for this. When this happens to your state, will be as candid?

We also have in our Constitution of the Commonwealth of Virginia a much stronger version of the 2A that articulates the meaning in very clear and concise language, Article I, Section 13:
That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

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Unfortunately, as we have seen in many states, passing Constitutional muster is irrelevant when the courts do not rule against them. We have no recourse when politics and the judiciary go along with clearly unconstitutional laws, other then to try to get politicians elected that abide by their oaths of office and defend our Constitutions, which if we could, we would have and not be facing these issues to begin with.

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If this goes all over the country the Democrats can take over the country and tell everyone what to do and where they will work and if you work they can take some or all you earn and give it to someone else.

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Cascadia, while the belief that these leftist do not want to harm law abiding citizens is understandable, their laws and policies betray them. When they write laws that only affect the law abiding, how else can one interpret their intent? Look at SB 64 as another example. The idiocy in that bill is apparent to any sentient creature, except the Leftist that wrote it.

Well, I will concede he probably isn’t sentient based on his oratory and bills he has submitted, so I guess we can’t be too harsh. In that bill (SB 64) to be presented next session, he exempts LE and CHP holders from a mag ban on shotguns, exempts only LE from a mag ban on rifles and handguns, does not exempt anyone from a ban on his definition of “assault weapons”, and does not exempt FFL dealers and firearm manufacturers from any of the bans. I would love to see a rational explanation for those exemptions and non-exemptions.

When NY passed their “SAFE” Act in 2013, they initially did not exempt LE and military from their mag ban and LE went ballistic claiming they needed their standard mags for the safety of their officers. Would not the same hold true for the rest of the citizens of NY? LE are only citizens, they are not a special class, such as military. The irony in Saslaw’s bill is that he also does not exempt LE from the “assault weapons” ban. Do you really believe Saslaw would advocate prosecuting LE for not disposing of their “assault weapons”?

One other issue with his bill is that there is no time accorded to people that own these banned mags and firearms to properly dispose of them; so that if it passes, on July 1, you must dispose of your banned items or be a felon. Do you believe tossing them in the trash is a good idea? He gives people no options in turning them in or how to ensure these “bad” things do not fall into the “wrong” hands, which one would presume is the reason for the ban. That makes a rational person understand that the law isn’t about crime control, but only about disarming the law abiding.

None of the bills being proposed by the Democrats are directed at criminals and their illegal acts. Our Governor even publicly stated this past year that none of his “gun control” bills he is proposing would have prevented any of the crimes that he is mentioning as the reason for these “gun control” bills.

There was a shooting in Virginia Beach earlier this year in a local government building. The employees were disarmed due to employment policy. One of victims had a discussion with her husband the evening just prior to her being killed, about whether she should go against the policy and carry, as she was fearful of the man that ended her life the next day. She decided not to go against the policy.

Many mag bans state we should only be allowed 10-round magazines. The shooter in this case, as reported in the news from a police source, used two 1911 handguns with extended magazines. Nowhere was it reported as to how many rounds those mags held. We know why that is, because an extended mag for a 1911 holds ten rounds, the same number these anti-rights politicians claim will prevent these mass killings. If it were made known that the killer used ten round mags, it would completely invalidate their claims for “gun control”. This is yet another reason why we will not comply.

Dave17 sorry to ruffle your feathers. I know many Virginians did not vote for this. However, as a State they did. I think it’s good in that maybe it will get the rest of freedom loving America woke as they say. Hopefully, in time you guys can turn this around. Good luck.

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I love that you have that… it is clearer.

but… what the heck is happening in Virginia, then? That stronger article doesn’t seem to even begin to slow down the proposals for felony-izing the ownership of LOTS of firearms. :confused:

There is a certain strain of statist, largely Democrat at the moment, but not entirely, that sees the Bill of Rights and limited government as impediments and obstacles to be overcome. They want to rule people, and our Constitution is specifically crafted to stop them.

They are people like Erdogan in Turkey who said “Democracy is like a train. When you reach your destination, you get off.” In simple terms, they are Tyrants.

Unfortunately, after a couple hundred years of liberty, we as a country are deciding that we should just let the Tyrants have their way. They say nice things that sound good on the surface, and we like free stuff, so we vote for the Tyrants and let them dominate us.

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Its an old, old story, being retold in new terms

[…] iam pridem, ex quo suffragia nulli / uendimus, effudit curas; nam qui dabat olim / imperium, fasces, legiones, omnia, nunc se / continet atque duas tantum res anxius optat, / panem et circenses . […]
—Juvenal, Satire 10.77–81 - (Rome, circa 100AD)

… Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions — everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses.

The Roman Empire did not survive that devolution, I hope we can.

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I hope so too Zee. We have a lot of good, with some really messed up stuff.

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Thanks, @Zee – thoughtful, as ever. While I agree that we always need to be vigilant to legal over-reach, I think we also need to be vigilant of being driven to divisiveness by those who gain from our anger. Too often, here and elsewhere, someone throws out some perceived excess of the other side, and the echo chamber piles on uncritically without much reflection. It took me about 30 seconds to find out that the headlines to this story did not reflect reality. But look at some of the responses to this fake story: “Democrats are anti freedom.” “It is the true goal of the left. Total control of everything.”

Seriously? I’ve lived in red, purple, and blue states and find mostly people – patriots – of good will grappling with seriously complicated public policy issues. There’s no question that some are more comfortable with government than others, but my experience is that we mostly drift way towards the center than those who gain by our divisiveness would have us believe. And I have never, ever, met a democrat who is “anti-freedom” or a leftist who “wants control of everything.” I’d be surprised if anyone else has either.

My sense of the roots of the law in question is that they are grappling with how to deal with future Charlottesvilles. If we’re honest, it was a tinderbox waiting to erupt and presumably Virginia is trying to strengthen existing laws (which predate the Democratic majority) by adding prohibition to:

“[assembly] with one or more persons with the intent of intimidating any person or group of persons by drilling, parading, or marching with any firearm, any explosive or incendiary device, or any components or combination thereof.”

The amendment makes no mention of martial arts or firearms classes, a charge made up by Natural News and perpetuated by Infowars, and now here on this site. Sorry, I’m not going to play.

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The problem with the law, is who and how it gets “interpreted.” An over reaching official, could deem tactical training as “Paramilitary.” The law is an infringement of Virginians 1st Amendment rights. Not that all democrats want these things, but, Micheal Bloomberg and his ilk DEFINITELY want them. They believe it is there place in the world to tell the “subjects” how to live their daily lives.

And yes, I have met a few(very few) people of this very mindset. They would take every gun, knife, bow, slingshot, and water pistol. They want to dictate how much you can eat, of what foods. They want to tell you what you can drive. They believe in a totalitarian, quasi-communist nation, where only the “elite” have freedom.

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@CascadiaNow the trouble with this, as written, is that intimidation is in the eye of the beholder.

Let’s say we transplant this law, hypothetically, to Michigan. Say I were to be protesting a business for not wanting me and my firearm in their facilities, even though it would be legal for me to be there. I make up my picket sign with something 100% factual and not threatening and, while open carrying (as is my constitutional right, and legally protected in Michigan) I pace the public sidewalk in front of the property. I speak to nobody. I don’t stare anybody down. I just march up and down with my sign.

All of that is legal exercise of my first and second amendment rights. But should any person feel intimidated… rightly or wrongly… it’s a felony.

Now let’s say the person owning the business decides he just doesn’t want me there, despite my sign saying the absolute truth. He calls and says I’m scaring him… and it’s a felony.

I don’t have to even make this up… someone I know well was arrested for sitting in a car in the parking lot of a former employer, reading a book, while waiting for a paycheck to be written out. The employer didn’t want to pay so they essentially red flagged them… falsely claiming intimidation. An innocent person was arrested and held for making “terroristic threats”. It took MONTHS of time, many thousands of dollars, and the loss of multiple firearms before it was resolved.

And that was even without an overbroad, vague, and unconstitutional law like this one. I don’t even want to think about how this might have gone if this law had been in place.

BTW, no, there were no penalties for the ex-employer who refused to pay, made false reports to the police, and lied under oath. They did permanent and willful harm, and used law enforcement and the legal system to do it, and it cost them not a single cent.

In addition to being overbroad and ripe for abuse, this law provides for no penalties for false reports.

I know, personally, what it looks like to be on the wrong side of this very thing. This is a dangerous law, and it will be abused.

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Yes, unfortunately, the obvious answer is these anti-rights politicians just do not care about our Constitutions and neither do those that vote for them. Also, unfortunately, other than voting them out of office, there is little we can do when even the judiciary rules in their favor, even though the laws are clearly unconstitutional. 90+ percent of the state is not Democratic, but the population centers in Northern Virginia, Richmond, and the Hampton Roads area are.

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My feathers are not ruffled, I was just making it clear that I didn’t vote for it, and as a state we also did not. The population centers in Northern Virginia, Richmond, and Hampton Roads area did, 90+ percent of the counties and towns did not.

Yes, people have woken-up, unfortunately to a Socialist_Democratic state seeking to make all formerly law abiding firearm owners felons. The pure insanity, illogical, and unconstitutional laws is beyond anyone’s nightmare.

Just looking at SB 64 is proof these shills are completely clueless and just don’t care. One part that involves his (Saslaw’s) idea of what he defines as “assault weapons” makes most semi-auto rifles and shotguns illegal, without a grandfather clause or allowance for time to properly dispose of them. He also does not exempt FFL dealers, firearm manufacturers, nor LE from that part of the law. Another part that limits the magazine capacity of shotguns exempts LE and CHP holders, but not FFL dealers and firearm manufacturers. I guess we would have to go out of state to purchase shotguns. Another part, exempts LE from the mag limit on handguns, but no one else. I wonder where the dear Senator believes LE will acquire their “large capacity” magazines when FFL dealers will not be allowed to have, nor sell them.

If that law passes, apparently at 12 am on July 1, we will need to toss all of our non-compliant firearms and magazines into the trash, but not on our property, since that would still be considered possession. Maybe fill a garbage can with a label on it stating do not touch, this contains illegal firearms and magazines, you will be charged with a felony if caught with these items, and then place it on the sidewalk, at least that would only possibly be a littering charge.

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Democrats now have absolute control of Virginia. We are witness to the corruption that absolute power brings with it. They will ignore both the U.S. Constitution and the Virginia Constitution and without batting an eye. This is our national future should Democrats succeed in overthrowing our current system.

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All good points for sure. The point about the population centers voting for this while the majority of the counties didn’t speaks to the larger issue Democrats are pushy, i.e. abolishing the electoral college. Just imagine america without it. NY, Chicago, and LA would run the entirety.

Virginia’s nightmare will belong to all of us if we let it. This is more serious than most realize.

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Future Charlottesvilles? You mean where the Leftists, unpermitted, unlike the group legally permitted to assembly, attacked the other group because they hate the other group? That future Charlottesville? If you are referring to the man that was driving down the street and the Leftists began damaging his vehicle, and in his attempt to get away, crashed into another vehicle on the street? The Leftists that attacked him were in the street, not on the sidewalk, several were injured and one died. What would you do if you were traveling in your vehicle and an angry mob attacked you? Just sit there and wait to die or be severely beaten like the truck driver during the LA riots? These Leftists were not peaceably protesting, nor did they even have the legal right to be there according to that locality’s ordinances. However, the mayor told the police not to intervene and to stand down, allowing the Leftists to assault innocent people, just like at Berkeley.

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Sorry to disagree. All you need to do is look at the Freedom Grab that is going on today in Virginia. My hope is that this crazy law will fail when challenged in court, my fear is that it will be challenged in the streets.

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