I’m going to receive a lot of flak from this but my wife and I are new to USCCA and we were both reading our present and back issues (3 total) and came upon and advertiser for a carry-belt. Won’t mention the name unless requested but you can purchase in horse or elephant hide along with the standard. I know, we have a choice, don’t purchase if you don’t like the product. I’m just putting it out there. Realize we’ve got quite a few hunters online here so my views will not reflect theirs. We don’t hunt but we love to target shoot and we have nothing against hunters. In Northwest Florida, if hunting was not allowed the deer population would overtake I-10 and SR 85. I just can’t justify anyone making a product out of horse, elephant, cow… again, i get it. Switching gears, money coming in from advertisers is what can drive this organization to more people and make people aware that someone actually gives a damn about personnel who decide to conceal carry to protect their loved ones and even total strangers… ok, off the soap box.
Personally, I’m good with using as much of the animal as you can when an animal is killed. So I’m OK with cowhides being used - as well as all of the bones and as much of the animal as possible.
I’m not a fan of using exotic leathers…
Well, unless it’s a snake, I’m terrified of them and would rather see on as a pair of boots than in real life.
Snakes… love snakes except when they’re hanging on my chimney cover and then residing in my attic but that’s a story for another time. Yes, if the animal is to be slaughtered (humanely, there’s a native American tribe that puts the buffalo down with a 22 caliber to the head from a distance… just falls over and the other buffalo just move out of the way but all done outside on the prairie) then i am with you Dawn. If you eat the meat then utilize the entire animal but not “exotics”
You just gave me the heebie jeebies with that, @ES16!!
And I agree with you about the humanely part as well!
As a horse lover and someone he used to show Arabians horse leather wouldn’t be my first choice. Outside of the US there are several countries that eat horse meat. As long as the hides are ethically obtained I’m good with it. Elephant leather on the other hand I don’t think is right.
Several hundred thousand American horses go to slaughter in Canada and Mexico every year. The problem doesn’t start at the leather, or at the slaughter, it starts at irresponsible owners and breeders. Slaughter is an answer to a problem that already exists… too many unwanted horses. That’s the problem that needs solving.
Once the animal is dead, I don’t have a problem using everything. Using everything is the only respect we can pay the animal at that point.
FWIW, I don’t own anything I know to be horse leather… it would make me think about the horse slaughter problem every time I used it, and that would be hard.
Elephant leather… is it even legal to harvest elephants?
Yes, i agree but up to a certain point. If you do not purchase products from Horse, Elephant then there is no market. I’m not sure what the answer is here but slaughtering horses or any animal to make a damn belt is BS in my book. I realize cattle and alligator are used to make all sorts of products for consumers to wear but i can’t justify the USCCA magazine allowing any seller to list those two animals in their advertisement. Which is why we won’t be renewing our USCCA membership. You think a bit drastic? Yep, but its got to start somewhere. When Vicks was hired by the Steelers my wife and i gave every piece of clothing (and we had a lot) to charity, haven’t watched a game since. Now with the kneeling for the National Anthem, just another reason for us to watch Rugby instead. Now protesting anything, in my opinion, is a God given right, have no problem with protesting, you just decide whether you agree or disagree but we won’t support any organization that allows advertisers to list those animals for creating personal wear for us two-legged creatures.
@ES16, I’ve done a ton of work in horse rescue, so I get the ethos of it… I currently have 2 dozen draft horses in my pasture that are all rescues, most direct from the slaughterhouse yard. So I do hear you clearly.
That said, the horses are going to slaughter anyway, even if they throw the leather out after. No additional horses are going to slaughter because of a market for horse leather… there is an excess of horses and that’s a supply driving the existence of a market. Nobody in the US raises horses for the leather market, it is not economical.
I am with you on the Elephant issue… I’m not seeing how that gets done in any way I can support.
I will inconvenience myself quite a lot to support businesses that support my values, and to remove my support from those that don’t. (no more costco for me … and I’m buying hay for 24 draft horses…)
I appreciate that you’re willing to do so also.
Before you opt-out of an organization that exists to support and protect one of your values, because of another of your values, maybe we can ask @Dawn to carry your message back to the folks who work with advertisers and see if there is something to be done there.
I commend you on your commitment to your ethics, @ES16!
But I will ask how your not having USCCA membership and all of its many benefits will tell the advertiser that you don’t approve of what they’re selling?
Boycott the manufacturer because you do not agree with them. Write a letter to the editor at The Concealed Carry Magazine. Let the team here know how you feel - directly. @KevinM is on the Community. Unless he knows you’re upset, nothing will change and you’ve given up your USCCA Membership and all of the benefits without actually bringing attention to the situation. And without bringing it to our attention, nothing can change.
I can’t say how the advertising portion of the magazine works (I’m not involved in that), but I know we always appreciate feedback!
Exotic leathers are questionable for sure, but horse and cow I have no problem with. Horses and cows are used all over the world for food and clothing. (Here in the states it’s illegal to serve horse to humans, but it’s been in Rover’s food for a long time). The Bible even tells us in Genesis that after the flood God gave man the animals to eat, and also gave the animals a fear of man. . If we’re going to kill it and eat it, why not use it all for something good?
Killing an animal just for the hide or tusks is wrong.
I strongly disagree with you. Leaving the USCCA because of an ad is foolish. Don’t get the magazine, but keep your protection plan. You don’t know what’s around the next corner. You may need it someday.
Though I disagree with you, you have the right to speak your mind. I’ll defend that right with my last breath if I have to.
God bless America
ES let me help you with this.
Horse hide comes from old/crazy/mean horses that have to be put down.
Elephant hide comes only from Elephants that are legally taken and have to be to control the population and rogue elephants that attack villages etc in Africa and Asia.
Particularly in Africa all of the hunting is tightly regulated and in many of the poorer countries the meat provided by these hunts is literally what is keeping many villagers alive as it is their primary or only source of protein.
None of the game products or game trophies can be exported without very strict gov’t regulation and inspection to ensure that it is legally and properly taken.
Hunting in Africa literally provides hundreds of millions of dollars that go directly to protect endangered species, counter poaching initiatives and to provide badly needed dollars for the poorest countries and regions in Africa.
Don’t feel any guilt at all about buying those products, you are only doing good with your dollars.
As for horses, here in the US it can cost you 2000.00-5000.00 dollars or more to bury a dead horse and it is much kinder to put them down before they get to the stage where they are suffering every day of what remains of their lives.
If nothing else kills a horse starvation does because when they get old their teeth get so bad they can no longer get enough nutrition from what they eat to keep them alive.
People do not raise horses for meat like cattle, only those that must be put down for various reasons go to “the killers”.
If a horse has any value at all someone will pay for it to ride or keep as a pet.
I think someone is selling you a fish story there. A .22 doesnt’ have the energy to penetrate a buffalo skill from any significant distance.
That sadly is done by poachers but it isn’t done by legal hunters anywhere in N. America or Africa.
Even for those who are “trophy hunters only” by law every usable portion of the animal must be taken and utilized.
Many states have programs set up with game processors so that the trophy hunters drop off the carcass and pay for the processing then it is distributed to poor families, orphanages, boys/girls ranches etc.
If they are leaving it in the field it’s a crime.
Taking you to task on that one. Between 200,000 and 300,000 American horses a year go to slaughter in Mexico or Canada. That’s not hundreds of thousands of old, mean, crazy horses.
The majority of those horses are healthy, young, and simply unwanted. Race horses past their 3-year-old winning year, ropers and jumpers that have an injury that makes them rideable but no longer competitive, yearling colts that didn’t come out the way the breeder intended, stupidly back-yard bred products of “wouldn’t it be fun to have a baby horse”, injured horses that the owners don’t want to pay the vet bill for, the kid’s growing-up horse that the parents don’t want now that the kid has other interests, and working drafts who are a little past their heavy-work prime of 12 years but not past their lighter-duty life of 20-25. Not to mention hundreds to thousands of wild mustangs rounded up off the range and shipped directly to slaughter.
The vast majority of horses going to slaughter are not mean, not crazy, and most are not even old. They are just surplus, injured, imperfect, sub-competitive, or no longer wanted.
I know this because I’ve got 20 kill-yard rescued drafts in my pasture right now, and last year I took in 8 wild mustang colts right off the range… there were just 120 we were able to save out of 3500 that were rounded up and shipped straight to slaughter.
I’ve been doing the work in the horses for slaughter problem for 30 years, and it’s not the old, mean, and crazy horses that are in the kill yard.
This is what’s in the kill yard.
I wish someone would be taking those horses in to ride or as pets. Or letting the horses have a pasture retirement after a life of services rendered. But it’s just not true. Hundreds of thousands of horses go to slaughter. Every. Single. Year.
My connection has been down at work or else i would have replied back much earlier… first, Zee thank you for taking of God’s creatures, the throwaways i call them. Mike and WildRose… i have worked all over the Middle East and Africa. I can’t even respond to your comments as I’m leaving this ship and just don’t have the patience to deal with this type of thinking. Tourism over hunting brings millions and contributes to wildlife management. Since I’ve lived and worked with tribes, especially in Kenya, i know what I’m talking about. Thank you Zee for pointing out concerning the horses that are being butchered. The tribe that shoots the buffalo here in the states with a 22 long, which as you know produces very little noise, has been doing this for quite some time; it’s a head shot and as I’ve stated above, falls over and the other buffalo just move away without running or stampeding. Mike, don’t give me the Bible verse. I’m raised Catholic and know all about are dominance over animals, I’m sick of that damn excuse. Zee, i guarantee the man upstairs will reward you for your kindness. My wife and i take any and all animals that show up at our door (and there are quite a few) and give them food, shelter and a trip to the vets… there not big fans but they are so much healthier once the doc gets them on the road to recovery. Dawn, if you’re reading this, remove my account from this Blog. I’ve logged in and attempted to delete my profile but am unable to find any delete action. Thanks again Zee…
You’re right on one point I left off Zee, that’s the “surplus”.
Sadly there are surplus horses that either end up starving to death slowly or the lucky few that end up in rescues and you are correct on that.
There simply aren’t enough rescue programs to begin to take care of that excess just like the excess dogs and cats and other pets and they have to go somewhere.
I know something of the wild horses too, I used to occasionally work for BLM in AZ and NV rounding them up and one of the big auction points is/was over at Muleshoe in the next county over from where I grew up.
Best cow horse I ever owned was bred out of a reservation mustang mare and a quarter horse stud. Tough as a mule, best feet I ever saw on a horse. When we weren’t using him he’d run with the sheep and kill coyotes as the big guard dog.
I also know it is illegal to send those wild horses to the killers and you sign a contract recognizing that when you adopt them from the BLM.
As for the excess we’re back to the same problem, they have to go somewhere and in many states it’s going to cost you 200.00-5000.00 or more to have one euthanized and buried. At least when they go to the packers the resources are not wasted.