Thoughts and discussions. This is an interesting video posted about a month ago. Nice to see Americans doing this.
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The more people want to protect 2A, the better it is. Criminals will always find a way to arm themselves. It is the rights of the law abiding citizens that are under assault.
As far as the individual, who professed himself to be a leftist and a socialist… As long as he uses 2A to protect his 1A, I am OK with it. However, Socialist+gun=Communist. I have doubts that people like him will not do with guns what Communists did throughout history, i.e., use them for terror. In which case we may see more clashes between armed passers-by and aggressive protesters.
I believe that domestic security agencies cooperating with local police, are absolutely essential to make sure folks that follow radical subversive ideologies, like the young man above, remain law-abiding.
Finally, I wonder what’s the deal with MSM selecting from all categories of new gun owners they could interview, someone whose ideology is famous for mass murder. Do they like, have a subtle message for the viewers?
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Certainly, as American Citizens, they have the right to be armed. I support it 100%. Now, my concern, if, in fact, it is purely race based, this group protecting itself against that group, it seems to look like a competition. “You have guns We have guns”. I don’t have guns in response to any ethnic or social group, I have guns because there are a few people, people of every race and creed, that are violent criminals with no regard for me or my family.
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Gun sales have been more on a steady incline across the Nation since BLM and the pandemic. Hopely that people will seek in educating themselves with all the responsibilities of gun ownership.
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Interesting story, as far as the majority of gun clubs not being diverse I think he is wrong. Everywhere I have shot matches on the west coast, Every race and creed have been competing, and if by magic we all seem to get along with each other. I totally agree with his second amendment stance, that every American has the right to firearms ownership and the right to defend one’s self. Good article Johnnyq60.
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Awesome. Yay!
Awesome for individual Americans; awesome for 2A support; awesome for 2A visibility; awesome for diversity in 2A affinity; awesome for moving 2A away from fringe partisan “ownership” of fundamental rights; awesome for America collectively. Where can we take it from here?
In the spirit of 1A…yeah, ok, whatever spins your fidget.
In my view, socialist + gun = America.
At least one version, and far more so than anti-socialist + gun.
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Since you understand socialism far better than I do, please explain what the Comrade meant by “Guns imply social responsibility”. What exactly is this “social responsibility” and how does it interacts with gun ownership by liberals, progressives and socialists.
He did say it. Words have meaning. He meant something by it. I have an idea, but would like an expert speak first.
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Well, I don’t hold myself out as an expert on the meaning of what someone else says. And as a socialist, I consider myself more of a voter than a social justice warrior.
But I can certainly comment on what the Comrade asserting that “guns imply social responsibility” suggested to me:
- The right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
- The Four Rules of Firearm Safety.
- Self-Defense, Education, Training, and Discussions with Responsibly Armed Americans.
- The justified use of lethal force is predicated upon a lethal threat.
- One for all; All for one.
and perhaps most importantly: - An armed society may be a polite society.
I don’t think any of that hinges upon a particular economic system or political preference — just support for American values explicit and implicit in our founding documents. So far, we don’t seem to have the polite society.
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That’s a great commentary. I don’t understand how someone who subscribes to these principles, can associate himself with grifters, dogmatics, totalitarians by calling himself a “socialist”.
As far as the Comrade in the video, I have a simpler interpretation of the “social responsibility” of progressive gun owners. I believe he meant to “amplify voices” with guns. I also believe that a socialist will only support the 2A until he gains power, then the 2A can benefit reactionaries and other deplorables, and it must not be allowed. How many examples do we need to see to believe it.
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Oh, I think maybe I see part of the confusion. I mostly associate those pejoratives with capitalism, not socialism. I suppose it must depend upon a person’s lived experiences.
But with respect to forming judgements of individuals and groups with common interests, I try to evaluate actual behaviors — words and actions — not labels. I fear and oppose dogmatic, grifting, totalitarians on the left just as much as the dogmatic, grifting, totalitarians of the right — just because there are more of one than the other does not make one less dangerous.
Examples of a socialist who supports the inherent right of people to self-defense only until s/he is in a position to take that right away?
I dunno. One would be a start. Especially one in a position to act, and relevant to the present or near future. Personally, I don’t even need one to occur if the logic of the reasoning made the hazard seem more significant than having anybody else in power apt to do the same thing. The reasoning isn’t doing it for me, so you might need to find an example.
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History of the 20th century is one big example of socialism. Sorry, there is an established pattern of economic destruction, violence, and most importantly, lies.
Like I said, I view socialist ideology as subversive and dangerous. Socialism+gun=USSA, you were partially right with this equation.
Of course, I support socialists’ constitutional rights, including 1A, 2A, and so on. Absolutely I do. I also hope socialists are wiretapped and monitored by respective authorities. If there is a justification for FISA and Patriot Act, it is this.
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Well, I think we’re back to using completely unrelated definitions of socialism.
I don’t know how to fix that.
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example of socialism?
National workers socialist party IIRC…
NAZI’s…
then there is Venezuela…
I suppose if I looked further more could be found…
anyways IMHO both are very good examples of socialism…
IIRC the major difference between socialism and communism is ownership…
the socialist don’t care who owns what so much as who controls it…
the communist have to own it… ???
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The problem with “ists” and “isms” is they are all just banners that the corrupting forces at the top hide behind while raking in their own personal gains. They make perfect us against them distractions for the kleptocrats to hide behind.
We will never now the true potential of a “socialist” or “representative republic” system because they will always be corrupted by the small percentage of psychopaths and sociopaths who always seem to rise to power regardless of the system while the rest of us just try to live our lives and take care of our families.
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No, examples of socialism are easy.
Pretty much every free democracy in the modern world is an example of socialism — including 
. I don’t know of “pure” socialist examples, ever or anywhere. Most modern examples are a blend with significant elements of capitalism/market economy mixed in — sometimes the hybrid is able to push society forward; sometimes the hybrid holds us back.
Most of the argument about “socialism” really seem to be objections to despotic authoritarian regimes trying to fly a flag of “communism” or Marxism. They are just oppressive state machines not advancing social interests at all. I’m opposed to that.
Fascism is bad whether communist or capitalist, dictatorship or democracy, popular or unpopular.
I asked for examples of socialist systems supporting the inherent right of people to self-defense only until in a position to take the right away. I know of none; I am hearing of none. With exception of USA, the modern socialist democracies I refer to above have never been solid on a citizen right of individual or collective defense.
FWIW, I consider my personal values best described as “progressive” — that label is “left” in the current political scheme and accepts some elements of “socialism”. But I don’t think I am qualified as a certified flag-waver for the cause, however that cause might appear in peoples’ minds.
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I should add that I did not perceive the video clip/news report shared by @Johnnyq60 to be about socialism vs capitalism or good vs evil or us vs them — at all. It was about MSM recognizing a widening base of support for 2A and related principles. Or recognition that the wider base may really have been there all along — hidden from view and excluded from conversation by polarized political yammering.
I did not perceive that the interviewed spokesperson for the “latino gun club” to be promoting “socialism”, but about universal recognition of American values across ranges of American cultural, ethnic, and political affinity.
It is unfortunate that for all of us to voice 2A support there must be a black rifle association, a liberal gun club, a queer gun society, a ladies for 2A PAC, Jewish gun support, 2A for Muslims, and on and on. Those entities are more or less forced to exist when the political arm of the so-called “National” Rifle Association becomes a Republican Party PAC — with 2A almost a collateral talking point mixed with support for a broad platform of white, right, religious, reactionary, xenophobic, wedge political issues. Since the NRA membership and directors have not been able to get the organization back on course, I am thrilled to see that the other components of the 2A community are stepping up to make themselves heard.
There absolutely are legitimate threats to society posed by organized violence and vigilantism. But if you find images of drilling or marching Black Panthers more ominous than images of Wild Bois doing the same, I’d ask you to look in a mirror and think about just what that means. Really.
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I recall some small scale examples of socialism, Owen’s commune (19th century), some modern farming communes in Israel. They either deteriorated, or rely on like-minded individuals who agree, e.g. to forego personal property. This will not work in modern stratified society, without oppression and violence. I know someone from Sweden. The family pays 75% in personal taxes, punished for having talents above average. The country is rife with wellfare bums and beaurocracy, at best, they are stagnating. Is this the progress you offer? No, thanks.
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Victim mentality again. All of these non-diverse non-inclusive organisations can exist, are welcome to exist, as any other interests clubs. To say they must exist, or forced into being by NRA, GOP or systemic injustice - is baseless, and forgive me, smacks of clinical grade obsession.
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Blah, blah… Yeah, ok. I’ll restate that to see if I can get my meaning across.
Alternative 2A advocacy groups are encouraged to exist by the exclusionary messaging and advocacy approach of NRA and similar entities. They are forced to exist only if they want the entire 2A message to be visible and audible to Americans instead of just the curated right-wing version.
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Maybe I mistakenly assume most people are like me. My 2A journey had nothing to do with NRA. I never cared to read their message, nor understand their policy, nor interact with them in any way.
it turns out, NRA goons stand guard at the door of every gun store, and every range. They ask your race, sexual orientation and vaccine passport. and block you from exercising your 2A rights unless you are from the patriarchy. Outrageous, I see why socialists clamor for revolution.
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