The Bear is stirring

With all that’s going on in the country, especially in Virginia, as the cowardly governor hides behind his own guns, while he tries to disarm his people as the rest of the country watches, and fellow Demoncrats are looking for ideas. They are unaware, or totally oblivious to what is going on in the hearts of the American people who have remained silent and who are watching and waiting in the wings, as their rights and privileges are usurped.
These politicians are not giving any thought to the power that will be unleashed upon them, that has not been seen or imagined since the war of independence against Great Britain.
After the “Day that will live in infamy”, the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the Japanese had to admit, in their own words “we have awakened a sleeping giant”. The giant they experienced was only the grandson of “the” giant. The grandfather giant still sleeps, but his rest is presently being disturbed, and he is beginning to stir.


I want to know who approved antifa,communist for America and others to be as protestors in the same place at the same time? Nobody is that stupid are they? Or is it hoping for an issue? How about prosecuting those that made that move.

Why not let anti gunners protest on the other side of town,or a different day,or hours after the assembly leaves. But I remember if the society can be disarmed some form of socialism can rule.

This is also the issue with MMT (modern Monetary theory) which is being used to promote things like climate change… in the end debt is collateralized by all citizens which creates a socialist environment. But that can only happen if guns are removed.


They want another Charlottesville so they can say, "See, these gun nuts are no better than terrorists. " We cannot let this happen.


I think the First Ammendment approved this… Actually, if you dig, you find that VA Antifa and the communists are pretty pro-2A, suggesting that gun control works against the working class and is racist.

I know the trend here is to see this as left versus right, but I honestly believe the truth is much more nuanced than that, and that we may find allies in surprising places if we’re willing to look.


I have a real problem with antiAmerican politicians and their effort to usurp our Constitution to satisfy their own agenda.

I am further bothered by any military and law enforcement who obey orders to help these Communist sympathizing politicians that call themselves liberals or progressives, disarm the law abiding, responsible, citizens of the nation.

Aren’t they turning their backs on the very oath they took, including defending the Constitution of the United States of America against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. These anti-American politicians fit the domestic part of that oath.

Do we need that brave rider, Paul Revere, to saddle up and mount his powerful steed once again and ride, yelling, “British are coming, the British are coming”, to warn the people??

This is the Tyranny our forefathers spoke about and the reason for the second amendment.

Remember, our flag does not wave from the wind, but from the last breath of all those who died to keep us free.

Hey Tim, put that on your wall!!


Amen to that! Tomorrow the Virginia government tell us whether we are victims or warriors!
Hopefully sound minds will prevail!


I don’t like the antifarts at all. I suspect they are going to stir things up, and the media will most likely paint gun owners with a very wide brush.

I am all for the 1A, but if you look into the atifarts, that is not generally what they are for. They very often use violence in their “protests”.


I understand your point, but to my way of thinking (I didn’t say it was right, its just mine for now) it misses the mark. in theses areas 1)There is a difference between political values (usually with no settled belief or moral value system and ideological belief systems and our constitutional value system.

  1. CCW holders are proven to be the most responsible and lawful segment of society Antifa is a domestic terrorist organization (FBI DHS and other law enforcement agencies)

  2. in assessing I may look at who pays for the group to do what it does and who they normally align with. In this case it is the progressive left. (hence how the left and right starts)

A fundamental problem is that the governor said Monday would have terrorist and others(paraphrasing) coming on Monday and so he invoked the national guard? That is a smear that the ccw pro gun 2a agenda and movement did not and does not need.

in addition if a Antifa member was a ccw holder given their supporters (financial) and their background history of violence, in my mind it would be better if they showed up as a ccw holder with that moral condition as opposed to enmass as Antifa. Antifa messaging is not supportive of constitutional issues while an individual showing up as an American is if he is there fighting for 2a rights for the constitution The fundamental actions of Antifa and messaging is antithetical to the constitution even though by definition their organization sounds good (that is the deceit)

In addition since the government currently in control in VA has violated numerous laws and regulatory issues to pass what has been passed we recognize that a flash point moment is good optics for them. In addition the unknowing will grab the surface understanding and sacrifice their rights on the table of misunderstanding. This will also inhibit some court actions if it gets turbulent

If we go to a nuanced position It is very tricky since the whole 2a issue may be when tied to positions on the left, like MMT and other positions be viewed as a push for a more socialistic country (giving some acknowledgement to certain democratic socialist policies pushed in the past, during our depression era as an example), this is viewed antithetically as it relates to the constitution and American rights.

The divisions in thought are from one perspective fine and from another large but the context of this ideological statement is with a view to the political ramifications and the harm to the country as thought of by the founders

The position of you can (Antifa) fight me on Monday and be my friend on Tuesday, is a position of usery, regardless of what one gets and not a position of ideological or constitutional truth.

If looking at communism (the most noted form of socialism for many) it is not in line with our constitutional value system at all.

If on the other hand it is to get bodies to show the govt to back up it gets even more complicated with no basis in the constitutional values that the 2a issue is rooted in.



Would you please rewrite this and be a little less circumlocutionary in the process.


I will re post in the morning. With a bit more clarity on definitions​:+1::laughing::laughing::wink::wink:

Why do people keep voting in these democratic denons?


@Dr_Richard, I’m definitely not going to try to represent anyone other than myself either, but I do think it’s worth digging a bit. I certainly am not here to defend Antifa or anyone else, but I think they would argue that they actually are pro-American, just anti-fascist, and that they only use violence in opposition to fascism.

On VA and 2A, I think they have particularly interesting positions. Like the pro-2A community, they are fervently in favor of gun rights, concerned about government over-reach, and suspicious that folks on both the left and the right are stirring up conflict in VA for their own purposes. They have an interesting essay on one of their websites which, interestingly, was picked up by Patriot HQ:

The full essay is here, if you are interested:

The Present Day Constitutional challenge in Virginia
(The Virginia challenge for 2a pro gun rights and CCW holders.)

To start lets understand that there is a difference between a :

Political view – which may or may not have a moral component, and a party may change a political view because they are not bound to the view beyond the immediate goal or benefit.

An ideological view -is tied to how a society may be organized and how you achieve the desired result

A legal view- is a view that aligns and is supported by the laws enacted and observed (legally)
( Frederic Bastiat -has a great Phamphlet of The Law (circa 1850) available The Law | Mises Institute. The important point is the reason for the Law (the community of be-lievers that want a peaceful existence. The ones who violate that existence are – hence labeled crimi-nals (they do not want the peace or the law and therefore do not agree with the principles of the community) (in our times why those people lost their right to vote (as an aside)

A Constitutional view – Holds the law, and the ideology of the constitution and its tenants as the thing to be believed ,observed, and followed .

If you hold to the tenants of the 2a but not with a constitutional view you may be an enemy of the cause that you are joining and therefore may be a problem (current or future). It is an important dis-tinction since in our current time optics ( optics is defined here as- Print Media,TV and social medias 1/8 of a second information transfer to the masses, without the details behind the information trans-fer) may create unjust and inaccurate views of what is really going on with respect to an issue.

Optics are also important because they can be weaponized to push any point wanted without regard to truth.

                                                               Now to Virginia

The new left leaning government usurped the Virginia and Federal constitution by advancing a num-ber of anti Gun measures . In my view illegally, but they know in order for an illegal measure to be re-versed it has to go to court. Courts rarely remove all of the illegalities put in place and the loss is in even letting these measures get enacted without recalling either the elections, the officials or trying them for malfeasance, high crimes or some other remedy. The measures also usually need to go to state court before federal and in the 2a argument it is complicated by the issue of states rights and what states agree to.

In this case the state has settled law in their constitution saying it supports wholly the federal 2a provi-sion. That makes the actions in Va, MD and other states extremely dangerous to the 2a view and to the constitution of the country and the ideology of law in America as we know it.

The Governor’s posturing

The governor 6 days before the rally called up the national guard and multiple law enforcement agen-cies. His justification for doing this was that there would be terrorist and white nationalist and others (Antifa, Communist party members etc.) that were coming to create problems for Virginians.
*AT this point the political hands of OPTICS are already at play.
If the rally goes bad the anti 2a,anti gun crowds will cry see, if it goes well they will claim it was the governors extraordinary measures. This is the set up but it has potential components.

The governor could have separated or issued permits at different times for groups that might have been problematic (from a public safety perspective) or sent them to differing areas and still had the publics right to voice its opinion, without the fanfare of optics potential

Radical Participants

Antifa is known as a domestic terrorist organization throughout the united states and all federal law enforcement agencies.

The communist Party (CP) is typically supportive with other groups of sensitive ,conflict driven issues that antifa and others raise.

Antifa and the CP and others are known for creating violence, in events they participate in

Antifa (CP) and others are typically supportive of the democratic left in this country, and hence are usually associated with being an arm of the democratic party. The funders of these groups typically include the billionaires from “Democracy for America” (a misnomer name for an organization commit-ted to restructuring and destroying the constitution. Members such as “Open society .org (George So-ros) are on record in many places as wanting to destroy America (not just its borders)

A viewpoint:
Since the above members are usually on the side of the left it is not to hard to conceive of them work-ing for the left to create problems for the rally. In addition as verified through social media there were many callouts for these elements to show up in right leaning gear (MAGA hats, Trump Gear etc.) There were element sites agreeing to come dressed as something they supposedly do not agree with.

A Bigger Problem:
There is a saying of “All money isn’t good money” The same may apply here. If aa Antifa member is a CCW holder, I personally would rather see them show up normally with no antifa gear or allegiance, rather than enmass with other Antifa style members. The reason is this. If they come enmass they are announcing an agreement with the cause of antifa which is not supportive of the constitution or the 2a or the laws of the states or countries at its core. (Th name antifa is actually a misnomer to the actions of the group) as well as the principles of Bastiat on law and community (and they are defined as a ter-rorist organization) That is antithetically opposed to what the constitutional ,2a ccw holder believes and stands for hence they “Stand apart”

If the legal ccw antifa member comes without or not in the antifa role, then they are implying that they support the constitution of the US(or VA) in the 2a arena. This should create a moral and true ideolog-ical dilemma for an antifa member based upon the defined definitions above, and potentially a political challenge. (only if they are honest per se).

Why the problem is tough on legal constitutional CCW 2a gun or weapons holders:

  1. CCW holders Have been proven to be the most law abiding and responsible group of people in America

  2. Generic training of CCW holders in America is based on defensive action. (Therefore for the Governor to promote the optics of Terrorism is an unwar-ranted smear on Constitutional 2a supporting groups

  3. The state has laws on the books that the Governor is apparently afraid of (politically) but Law abiding CCW holders are not and have never been the threat. (Threat being those who willingly break the law and or seek a criminal view to their activity).

  4. There was no published media that I am aware of where legal CCW holders were told to go to VA looking for a fight. This was a constitutional (Federal and State) exercise of our citizens rights. That is those who believe in those princi-ples and the country and are offended at the low brow antics going on in VA. This is all without apparent political repercussions.


  1. The question also engendered here is who was elected someone fulfilling the current legal man-date of their office or someone who has a view that is antithetically opposed to the values of the united states and should not be in the public trust at all.

  2. Factually the anti gun push has no water. In John Lott Bias against guns (Foremost expert on Guns) we see that we have approximately 40k deaths from guns annually (2017). We also see 2.5 million people plus are saved by weapons. (the deaths can be further categorized but simplistically as a per-cent of population it is almost irrelevant. (pop 2020-est-330,130,281) or .0001211

In a free society there will be deaths and of those 40,000 approximately 66% were suicides* source Sara Mervosh NYT 12/18/2018 (forgive me it was an easy out)
7) The FBI UCR uniform crime report shows that approx. 417 annual deaths were from rifles 1417 were from knives (per x thousands of people) however pick any of the ucr reports .ammoland or the bureau itself the deaths went down between 2018 and 2017. The point is the removal laws may be more about undoing the constitution and pushing the country to a socialist footing (or which com-munism is a part) than about guns.

  1. Joseph P Martina (Professor fro Hawaii) has done one of the most exhaustive study of transitions to tyrannical governments in existence.

He published the results in a book called Resistance to Tyranny.

H looked at all weapons(guns) related deaths in all societies in the world and included all wars.

The point is (made early on in his book) all communist, socialist, fascist etc. countries had to elimi-nate guns before they could change the country. The means vary for governmental, military, lulling people in to a sense of no ned, or they were the harm when in fact it wasn’t true and people were crushed in the end.

And finally if looking at how our future government may function, a lot on the left or democrats are pushing exorbitant cost items (like climate change) this is their right (however) the way that this is being funded on the proposals that don’t seem to make financial sense is with MMT (Modern Mone-tary Theory)
Without getting into the weeds MMT in the end makes the people the collateral for everything the country does. (This is socialism)
The move to implement is as simple as violating the CCW and gun holder rights of constitutional 2a legal weapons owners.

NONE of this is represented by the masses of constitutional 2a law abiding ccw holders or the facts of gun ownership or deaths by gun

Tried to be brief yesterday mike, even today but I believe VA is a travesty and would not want any USCCA members regardless of beliefs caught in a set up.

I Pray everyone is safe and when they show the rally today, it went off without a hitch, because all went to support America

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Mike thanks, ill read as you read. I do think today that the position of enemy of my enemy is my friend might be a dangerous constitutionalstance, perhaps not on a singe issue stance but in a larger context it can present major problems and bring unwanted attention or undeserved critisicm which can hurt you in the end.

ps lovethe dialog Thanks

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thanks for the articles

A couple of issues come to mind here.

What Antifa is doing, if I can be so humble as to get into the heads of left wing gangsters and anarchists who abide by their own customized version of “The Code of Kindred Honour”…that there is honor amongst thieves and garden variety constitutional usurpers, who answered the call from Barak Hussein Obama, to “Put your marching boots on”, spawning the “Occupy” movement.

My, what a difference a decade makes, and how prevalent is memory loss.

Since then we have seen the transition to “Antifa”, otherwise commonly known as the fascist group of “anti facsists”. As if we needed more of this kind of dramatic irony in this country.

What Antifa is doing is very smart and 1st amendment oriented. They are simply showing gun owners that they now realize that clubs, helmets, and ballbats don’t make a match for AR 15’s.

So if you can’t beat em… join em! My only suspition is that there is something about a gun that does more to humble people, and prompts them to proceed with utmost caution, than to embolden them. (Hypothetically)

So you could say that Antifa is “evolving”

The other issue is what I call the “G I Joes”, the Tulsi Gabbards and Seth Moultons of the world. Military who have a personal affinity for disarming civilians. I’m sure this is theraputic music to Northam’s ears… I don’t know about Moulton’s history, but I do know about Gabbard, being a resident of Hawaii for 38 years.

Gabbard is one of those notorious “G I Joe” left wing cameleons who tends to dwell in between the worlds. Knowing that there are many gun owners and supporters of the 2nd amendment in Hawaii, as well as past and present military, she ran initially on a pro gun plat form, and got elected to congress, using the military as another notch on her resume.

This woman is as phony as a three dollar bill!

After she got comfortable with the landscape of politics in DC, she began to become more vocal, transitioning into an “anti gunner” platform similar to Moulton, not to mention numerous others. She apparently used this calculation in order to insure a more secure future for herself as a Hawaii life long politician, thereby having the nerve to finally run for president, giving herself much more national notoriety.

Well, you can fool some of the people, some of the time, as they say!

Make no mistake, politicians like Gabbard will be walking arm in arm, in lock step demonstrating with their assortment of left wing constitutional usurpers, and YES, some of them are ex military ideologues who are becoming more prevalent and numerous on the American political landscape, who believe in disarming the pesky and dangerous pioneer civilian militia!


I agree and I cant explain it any better

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I truly do believe that when push comes to shove and state ordered confiscation is enacted either through law enforcement or National Guard that there will be a stand down among both. If not then God help the Commonwealth of Virginia as patriots nationwide descend upon it to end the tyranny.


I think they are hopping for a riot so they can use it to take our guns away and use it for a sample why.