Spence,
I’m neither dem nor rep and I think if someone is against BLM, they’re racist and in denial for realities that others live in this country! I’d hope sensible people honor the constitution which grants equal rights to ALL and not just some!
Sincerely,
Dr. C. Mabingani
Now there’s a sensible answer! This business of pinning left vs right is an old tactic of divide and conquer! I’m neither a dem nor a rep, yet I’m a big 2A. Definitely, fingers off trigger!
During protests in my area a group got together armed and set up camp at my work place that was closed at the time. Police came by and told us to stand our ground. There were groups driving by but there wasn’t any problems there. Now I am back to work.
So, this really is not anything new but, it was popularized by media. I wish I had a picture of the group on that day!
@Dr_C_Sipho
Dr. Mabingani,
As you have survived apartheid (and I assume immigrated to the states seeking a better life), I have no doubt that you understand the value of founding principles and a society which affords you the opportunity rise to the rank of PhD and to speak freely and to peacefully demonstrate in an effort to effect positive change
However, when you indicate that:
it appears to me as no more enlightened than, and in fact contributes to, the division and bigotry which I expect you actually oppose.
I’m not against BLM as a testament to the value of black lives, and I certainly don’t deny that racism exists. I myself have a diverse family and have experienced racism from black and white alike.
But what is BLM?
I do know that BLM the organization proclaims:
We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure… and this I am against.
From my observation, ‘Your a racist’ has become a catchphrase used to either incite emotion and thereby control the narrative or to end the discussion and any intelligent dialogue that could otherwise ensue. As such, it is not worthy of a PhD level intellect, especially when used as a blanket statement towards individuals whom you have never met nor had the first dialogue with.
Think all this is because the break up the home.
This conversation really isn’t going the way it should be. I think this St. Louis couple is a good example of an event in the current climate that we can learn from. We really shouldn’t be making this a political debate. There have been over 2 million guns sold since COVID. I went to my local sporting goods store and they had about 10 guns available (over half of them 22s).
In the current climate, whether you are a Dem or Rep, there are potential consequences for doing what this couple did. They were in fear for their life and they took responsibility into their own hands.
We have talkl of police being defunded. This is another reason we need to discuss these events. Statistically speaking, defunding the police is not favorable opinion among Dems or Rep, but the mob mentality is making an impact. We are finding out after Covid, riots, defunding, police may not be able to come to the rescue.
We can all learn from each other and this story. Turning this into a conversation of dem values and rep values is really not a fruitful move. Talking about whose racist and whose not racist is another dangerous topic that’s been brought up. In this forum we all clearly have a common ground on the topic of fire arms. The nation is divided so much along political lines right now, why can’t we enjoy the commonality of 2A rights and self defense?
@Scoutbob
I agree and I apologize to the group for furthering the tangent. It’s difficult not to speak up when an entire group, or the rest of the world, is negatively characterized simply for not thinking the same way as someone else. I know you’ve seen me speak up when an entire race was judged by the actions of a few as well (but another tangent)
I applaud your pulling this back into context.
For myself I have refrained from direct criticism and armchair coaching of this couple’s actions as there is much I do not know about the chain of events. I fear that comments made here could be considered ‘expert’ testimony at some point.
I would still like to understand the legal implications if one had a ‘home range’ on their property (as many do) and if they were practicing at the time a mob arrived. I suspect the mob would not run toward the gunfire. But legally speaking what are the considerations…?
By this litmus test I would probably be considered a left wing liberal. Take that how you wish.
YMMV
@Zavier_D
I won’t say much because I’m trying not to be responsible for driving another topic onto the ditch (again). But I will say this, when people get together and communicate openly with the intent to understand they often find that they have more in common than they realized.
Often the opening dialogue and going from telling to listening has much in common with pulling the scab off a wound. But if the wound is infected it needs to be done so that it can heal properly… OK to philosophical. Sometimes I wish the world was just light green or dark green again.
One of the things I’ve always enjoyed about this community besides it being pro 2A. Is how we can have open conversations on issues without it becoming a flame fest.
I think that alot of what’s wrong with our politics in our country is that both parties have retreated to the very vocal far right or very vocal far left and that’s all we hear from our parties. But 40% or so of our countries voters are moderate independents.
We have to get back to a point where our Representatives can make bipartisan agreements without fear of losing their seat because they didn’t pass some political purity test.
Much like you I wrote a blank check to Uncle Sam in my youth that he could draw on for the rest of my life. I believe in our country, I believe in our Constitution. I believe that if we could get the 18,000,000+ CCW permit holders to unite that alot of the 2A nonsense would stop.
But I think we all have to do what we do so well on this forum, and that’s to be able to talk respectfully about the issues.
I’m a Libertarian but I almost always vote Republican even though I have some very Democratic leaning views, but I feel the Democratic Party is antithetical to most important views.
I have enjoyed this exchange @Greg35. Thank you.
Sadly the (formal) BLM movement goes beyond the truism that Black Lives Matter and that we need to fight continuing racism in America to making other political statements. For example its leadership has a history of being anti-Semitic (https://www.adl.org/news/media-watch/adl-on-black-lives-matter), and anti-Semitism surfaced in recent protests as well (Major Jewish group slams anti-Semitism at BLM protest | World Israel News). It doesn’t help that there is a growing messaging around socialism is the answer for racism (which causes my friends who grew up in the Soviet Union to go ballistic, and run out and buy guns). Forget conservative media harping on this, the socialist movement is claiming BLM as their own (“You fight capitalism with socialism” - BLM and socialist struggle |). That makes it basically impossible for me to stand on my car and shout “Black Lives Matter”, even if I wish to do so. So I will fight racism in other ways, for example with a recommendation that everyone here watch a short video called “Racism is Real”.
I’m an all or nothing kind of person. Either everyone matters or no one does. I support the BLM movement but I don’t support the organization. This doesn’t have anything to do with race, it has to do with following the money and from what I’ve found so far I believe it (again I’m talking about the organization not the movement) to be corrupt and using people’s emotions to take advantage of them. For the record this is precisely why I dropped my NRA membership, the very same tactic of manipulating people’s emotions for contributions.
As far as politics go, I really don’t care if someone is Left, Right, Dem or Rep. What I have noticed, and I find this funny (both strange funny and haha funny), is that the left has a tendency to devour it’s own supporters whenever they aren’t progressive enough, this was the real point of my post.
Researching the St Louis couple, both are successful attorneys, registered dems and make large donations to the BLM organization. The second they stepped up to defend their own that’s when the left went nuts on them over social media. Which is what i was trying to highlight to begin with.
Now I want to end on another note that may help people going forward if they choose to read it.
Liberals vs Progressives. The word Liberal has been being used in place of Progressive and that’s not really a correct usage. Classic Liberals are typically as hardcore Constitutional as any person on the Right can be, they actually apply Constitutional matters LIBERALLY. Progressives are the ones that tend to fight against our Constitutional Rights, they’re the ones that want a “nanny state” where the government runs everything as strictly as possible so that they don’t have take responsibility for anything.
This mislabling is what is driving our friends on the left away.
Actually I’m going to go out on a limb and simply say, LABELING is probably the biggest cause of social problems in our country. Unfortunately we all do it constantly, every day. I think it’s ingrained in our nature to find a “box” to put things in.
To save time going forward since I’m inevitably going to be asked or it will be assumed: I’m a Constitutional Libertarian that doesn’t fit in the Libertarian box. I disagree with every party on many things, but I also agree with every party on many things. I guess you could say I’m complicated lol
As far as the Constitution: HELL YES it applies to everyone! Every single citizen of this great country. This is why I’m so critical of politicians! Yes I seem like I’m pointing at the DNC all the time, they’re just more outspoken about taking away OUR Constitutional Rights.
Hear, hear to both @FuriousMB and @Dawn! I live in a deep Blue state and tend in that direction myself on most issues. But as @Dawn mentioned, my views on, say, the environment or foreign trade have nothing to do with my views about CCW. The more we try to couch this as right versus left, the fewer inroads we will make on the vast majority who are in the center.
To my mind, the biggest mistake we make is to conflate a spectrum of views into “pro-2A” or “anti-2A.” Polls show about an equal amount of R and D support universal background checks and responsible red flag laws, then start to diverge on greater or less government involvement. The proof is in the pudding – 8 years of Obama and no one went after our guns, even when the dems controlled both houses, and those D candidates who were most opposed to guns (Beto and Swalwell) were the first to drop out for lack of support.
One question for @Dawn – my memory is that in last year’s NPR story on USCCA, someone mentioned that 40% of USCCA members are registered democrats. Is that true, and how do you know? I don’t remember ever being asked, but it’s a good number to know and, frankly, not that surprising.
A vote for a democrat is a vote for Socialism at best.
Colion just made a video on this. “Gun ownership is not liberal or conservative, it’s essential”.
@CascadiaNow
I understand, if not entirely agree with, nearly all of what you say. Where I struggle most is with the concept of ‘responsible red flag’ laws. To me, this is a cute oxymoron coined to make the currently illegal seem somehow more acceptable. I believe red flag laws would deprive citizens of a constitutional right without due process, which in and of itself violates the constitution.
I suppose though that ‘responsible red flags’ could be closely followed by ‘ethical censorship’, ‘deterministic discrimination’, or perhaps even ‘non-gender based sexism’
Interesting theory… can we have more explanation then?
Typical “twist the law to your advantage” garbage lawyering.
Just like the poor cop in Atlanta, that’s now charged with murder. WHY? The idiot DA says a taser isn’t a deadly weapon but charged officers a few weeks before saying a taser was a deadly weapon. That’s unbelievable!!!
The bad part will be when the officer is AQUITTED ( and he should be)…there’s gonna be more rioting in Atlanta.
HELL YA! This is the way to project Law Enforcement. Happy 4th 
Who ever you vote for just make sure you are in his best interest. Weather REP or DEM as long as they are PRO 2nd amendment they got my vote. Accidently put in wrong tread . I want it in Legal and 2nd Amendment. My apologies.