That alarm, won’t stop someone from misusing said Firearm. Like a metal detector is just a noise maker, unless an armed guard is standing right next to it.
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I hear you, but the Latin Kings here in Chicago or the Crypts or the Bloods do not care about your alarm system they will laugh at you then shoot you with your own gun. Have you ever been to Chicago South Side? There was times I fought my way to school when I was younger. I grew up here in What is now known as the High Hundreds, they will laugh at your alarm system
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Exactly Chet
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Should weapons be in the schools? They are already there! Unless you believe the “NO WEAPONS ALLOWED” sign in the parking lot prevents them. Won’t go there right now…
I taught in Virginia Beach public schools for 25 years, Teachers “hinted” to me that “some teachers” carry (like themselves?) using the “tried by twelve rather than carried by six” approach. Some have strategically-placed baseball bats or other items for defense. If you teach war history, have a mannequin clothed in combat gear: helmet, bullet-proof vest, etc. as a display. May come in handy. Fear is the ever-present elephant in the room.
Especially if you are a USCCA member, you have probably viewed many videos of defense attempts gone wrong. Even police officers have over-reacted or shot the wrong person. (Yes, their opportunities for effective training and support needs to be better funded!) A permit alone does not suffice for crowded classrooms and hallways.
I was dismayed when I took my first concealed carry course - terribly inadequate.
A brief overview, a confirmation that I could hit a paper target in a controlled range environment, and a page of weblinks to visit for more information. That’s it???
Fortunately, I had already read Section 18.2 of the local/Virginia Code that includes the use of weapons in self-defense, and read a “new” (1980) book by Massad Ayoob, “In the Gravest Extreme.” Yes, I gave myself homework. That book prevented me from over-reacting in several home defense situations. But that’s another story. (Thanks, Massad.)
Training needs partnership and coordination with all stakeholders: teachers, students, law enforcement, etc. How will the police know who’s the shooter and who’s the staff/teacher with a gun? Even one teacher in a classroom with a gun is no match for ten students who could disarm the teacher - while the rest of the class laughs, runs, or watches in horror.
Following assemblies on bullying, etc. I asked my senior classes, “How many of you know - not think - that students are here today with lethal weapons?” Many of the students in the classes raised their hands. So why don’t these students take responsibility for creating their own safe environment?
I know I’m preaching to the choir, but history blamed Bonnie & Clyde for shooting a dozen or so people, not the guns. Even in the turbulent '60s, we weren’t arming middle school teachers. We need to address the underlying issues that are creating the increased, uncontrolled hostility in today’s young people that is often tolerated, covered up, and even defended in homes and schools - and then spills into our communities. But that discussion is for different articles and different posts.
Following a shooting drill at my last high school assignment (1,500 students), an administrator told me (privately) that the “official consultants” labeled my class and classroom as the “best prepared” for the scenario. I wish I could tell you that the students felt safe after hearing that, but they didn’t. But they were glad I cared enough to spend time preparing them for the drill, and that I used portions of Section 18.2 as one of my choices for fulfilling “reading with understanding” real-world documents.
Some students agreed that they would feel safer if I carried. In our pros/cons discussions, I mentioned the responsibilities of carrying, including my willingness to take the danger zone risks, if necessary, to stop a shooter. This needs to be a part of the training for teachers making that choice. But to end on a humorous note…
Keep in mind that I lived in the school district, my own children went to the same schools as my students, and many I had known since they were in elementary school, so I managed a more relaxed and open class. Anyway, while on the topic of teachers carrying, one of the students was looking at me while shaking his head back-and-forth with a clear NO. Why not, I asked. “Not with the way we treat you!” The class laughed.
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I teach in CA too Cody7, and also in the hood. I hear ya and agree with ya loud and clear.
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NO People are People. Teachers are no different. There will be good and bad no matter the training.
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Wow to the Wow, this is one very interesting and lively debate over teachers and staff carrying concealed! My only comment is if the weapon is not on the concealed weapon carrier and after class and during breaks they move from class to staff lounge and other duties a safe is meaningless because it is stationary and the staff is mobile, also, each concealed carrier should have a watch with a silent alarm notifying each of them of an active shooter present in school and automatic door locks with cameras outside of each class so the teacher can monitor the hall outside of. each classroom. This is in essence a huge debate and extremely critical since there is inevitably a 5-15 minute delay in LEO’s arriving on scene, also each concealed carrier should
undergo psychological screenings to determine their suitability for carrying a concealed weapon the desire to carry is completely different from the mental toughness to make sit second decisions in the heat of an active shooter moment.
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Saw a presentation at a two day Church safety conference from FASTER Colorado. They have a great set of Myth busters and FAQS on their website as well as a compelling video by the SWAT instructor for FASTER.
Those going through the training have to score 100% (on the range) to pass the class and the video of their training (not on the site) was impressive.
In Colorado each school district can give permission for that district to allow concealed carry at school by staff, teachers, or employees. If you have a few minutes check out their site.
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I understand why you suggest that but my question would be who makes that decision for the teacher to carry. Is the person doing the screening 2A minded? And what would be the criteria in order to pass the suitability for carrying a concealed weapon?
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I really disagree, who in this would be the determining body? What State or Federal Bureaucrats would make said determination? What if said body has you confused with someone else? My name isRobert Murphy last I checked not that long ago there were 2500 living Robert Murphy’s in Illinois alone and who would you determine I would go to if I disagree with said findings. Would your shrink do a nationwide search and how long do you propose my said license would be valid for? Did you take into consideration that the Second Amendment states that it cannot Be Infringed upon and any and all feel good Extreme Risk Protection laws aka Red Flag Laws are neither legal or valid once they are challenged in the State or US Supreme Court?
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Well each school would have to create their own criteria because of liability issues. Could each teacher join USCCA and be protected like any other concealed carry holder? The criteria would have to be fairly extensive since these concealed carriers are in
a school setting, I believe I stated earlier that it would be better for school staff, like office workers, janitors, gym teachers to be the concealed carriers but if a teacher had the right mentality and psychological results then it would be up to each of
them, but an active shooter plan would have to be implemented, practiced routinely, so each person would go to a certain predetermined location, perhaps purchase bullet proof shields would really be advantageous, like I said a detailed plan would have to be
decided probably by the school board with each principal on that board, but after a good plan was implemented and each practice would help them be better coordinated for an eventual active shooter. Perhaps even a role play where someone coming in and acting
the part of an active shooter but all concealed weapons holders would first turn in their weapons for training weapons so no one gets hurt, perhaps using paint ball guns for realistic effect.
Good point. Kids are devious and creative so it would require either a virtually indestructible storage container or the firearm needs to stay on the teacher at all times. Absolutely no off body carry.
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If a kid gets their hands on it, it’s already too late. Not sure there’s a viable option here other than on body carry at all times.
There definitely needs to be a way for teachers to trigger an alarm from their classrooms unfortunately because you never know when a kid is going to produce one of their own or some other weapon.
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In public schools, I would think teachers could be eligible for qualified immunity, similar to police. I would also expect that schools or school districts (public and private) could obtain law enforcement/armed security riders to cover the school and the teachers as well.
The crazy part is that no matter how things go, when something bad happens, someone is going to get sued. They will be sued for allowing guns in a facility, not doing enough to prevent guns in a facility or preventing guns from being legally carried in to the facility. And the results of the lawsuits will vary widely from state to state.
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WildRose is correct. Off body carry is a bad idea. I’ve generally been avoiding this thread because it really frustrates me. I’ve been involved first hand with several school districts who currently arm selected staff. The amount of training, insurance requirements, coordination with local law enforcement and medical first responders is well beyond what the general public understands. Additionally, all staff are trained on a vast array of responsibilities if an active shooter situation occurs. Districts that have taken this difficult threat seriously have established a multi layered defense based on the advice and assistance of reputable companies that specialize in this area. The crazy ideas if read and heard, i.e. volunteer ccw holders, retired military, armed parents, etc. may be well intentioned but they fall far short of what’s needed, required, or deserved for our kids.
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So, your on board with infringement of oneself, unless they have subscribed to the governments ideals of who is “properly trained?” I know law enforcement, who’s guns are covered in rust and dust, and couldn’t run across the street without having a heart attack, but, they are deemed “qualified” to carry a gun around my child at school. It’s simple. Do away with GFZ’s, and if an innocent is shot, the school district isn’t liable. In fact, the criminal perpetrating the crime is the one who should be charged. Then, if a teacher wants to carry, it’s their choice.
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Case in point. I’m sitting outside of my kids school right now, with a holstered .45. The school resource officer just left. School isn’t out for another 15 minutes. If, I get out of my truck and walk up to the building as is, I’m committing a misdemeanor violation of Illinois ccw law. While I’m sitting in my truck, I’m 100% legal. What’s the difference? About 25 feet.
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Sorry to piss you off but you are woefully ignorant of the school environment or the thought, planning and training that has gone into making our schools safer for kids. I carry everywhere I LEGALLY can, however schools are off limits for general everyday ccw holders as are federal properties, hospitals, airplanes etc.
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No, I quite understand what goes into it. Since I have a school age child, I asked for all the info about how that school protects my child. I talked to the chief of police, in 4 different school districts as o what those districts do to protect MY child. I’ve read the county procedures. I’ve read statistics, studies, and reread them on how to secure such places. Now, I have a stack of passed background checks, licenses(I live in Illinois), and safety checks from the DEA(have to for work), Illinois State Police, Illinois Department of Child Safety, and soon to be 4H(rifle instructor program coming up), just so I can work with kids at church, camp, and, wait for it, THE SCHOOL. Why then, should I NOT be allowed to carry a firearm inside that building. If I can be trusted to handle drugs at work, firearms in public, and a child’s emotional, physical, and spiritual well-being, why not in the school, with my .45? And, this statement can be reciprocated by literally MILLIONS of law abiding citizens. Last, I’m not mad. Just engaging you, in a lively discussion. You, me, and everyone else here is entitled to our opinions about the subjects.
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