Very informative video and brings out some good facts and sheds light.
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It is so true that you can not judge or take sides until you get the facts
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As I have said, It is too soon to draw conclusions about criminal or civil liability. I will say jumping out with the shotgun seems imprudent but I do not have experience with the victim and it sounds like the shooter did. This will be a wait and see case!
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Another viewpoint about the new video (different take from the Officer Tatum video). He makes some good points. This case is definitely a good example of why you have to let all the info come out and can’t just jump to conclusions on these things. Ahmaud Arbery Case: New Game Changing Video Evidence? - YouTube
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We live on a small dead end road. Greeting and “May I help you ?” get most of them… Calling for help (911) is appropriate otherwise. BUT, CC under the shirt is most appropriate. Not looking for a fight but being cautious is warranted outside. Kicking in my door would be different.
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Harry,
I am a retired cop. It sounds like these two took the law in their own hands. In this situation they should have been witnesses not the executioner.
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I agree it may be suspicious, but like you said being a witness is all that was required here if that. According to Georgia law no crime was committed by Ahmaud based on publicly available evidence. Burglary requires forcing his way in which did not happen according to the new video released. He walked into a house that was under construction. Unless there is something illegal and coded in Georgia law about about not entering a property under construction (there is not that I could find) there is no citizens arrest authority for that. This incident did not even break Georgia’s trespassing law. The 911 call recording released is about a suspicious person, this is not a crime. From the available evidence the incident puts the shooters in a very bad spot. I believe the jury will be deciding a manslaughter case, murder would require the state to prove premeditation.
O.C.G.A. §16-7-21 states multiple ways that a person can commit the offense of criminal trespass. First, a person can be convicted
- When he or she intentionally damages any property of another without consent of that other person and the damage thereto is $500.00 or less; or
- When he or she knowingly and maliciously interferes with the possession or use of the property of another person without consent of that person.
Furthermore, a person can also commit criminal trespass when they knowingly and without authority:
- Enter on the land or premises or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person for an unlawful purpose;
- Enter onto the land or premises of another person or into any part of any vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after receiving notice from the owner that such entry is forbidden; or
- Remains on the land or premises of another person or within the vehicle, railroad car, aircraft, or watercraft of another person after the owner has asked the person to leave.
Side note: I am very glad we have these mental exercises here at the USCCA forums. Being prepared to make right choices in different situations is a good thing. I think we can all agree the McMichaels made some very bad choices. It’s a good example of what not to do if you see a suspicious person in an urban setting. It may be different in rural locations of Georgia if police response times are extended but that’s another discussion.
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Yep, I agree. Especially when the suspected crime was burglary. Maybe if the “suspect” presented some sort of immediate danger to others around him, then it makes more sense to go beyond being a “good witness” and intercede.
Even here in the crazy land of California, we can make a private person arrest for crimes committed in our presence. However, what the law permits and what is safe, smart and prudent doesn’t always square.
Its like the expression told to CCW holders, “Don’t go somewhere with your gun if you wouldn’t go there without it”. Just because I have a permit doesn’t mean its smart to go to “dangerous” areas. Just because the law may permit to effect a private party arrest, it doesn’t mean its smart and should be done.
I’d rather play it smart than end up in jail…or dead.
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I am in agreement with Dawn, (there was so much that could have been done differently in this situation to avoid this outcome) I am a newbie, what troubles me, as I continue to learn about the responsibilities of owning a gun; The argument of owning a gun is to protect (Self Defense)+(Last resort if applicable). I do not know all the facts and I do not think anyone really will, with the exceptions of eye witness and accused) Victim voice unfortunately is the video. The trouble I am having is from what I have learned so far (WIP) - You draw your gun in self defense when the perception is imminent danger. Not chasing anyone or show signs of aggression especially when a gun is involved - CC is different right ? you do not necessary need to banish a gun if the decision to intervene in a crime was just to detain/ IDK and prefer not to indulge in speculation I was not there. My confusion and based on my view which is - We are already experiencing the challenges of owing a Gun, many people are just against it for what ever reasons. This unfortunate situation just gives more ammo to justify and challenge the right to do so. I do not understand - Why this progress, I can’t justify chasing someone with a gun / shot gun for a crime that the accused were not directly involved in - they could have followed him , and kept communication with the police - I can accept that a good neighbor looking after my property - But I feel anything I owned is not worth me shooting anyone or my neighbor risking his life - But again that depends on the circumstances- robberies can be scary if you are directly involved in being robbed I get that - IDK I think it was a bad move in there part and to simply express that DAWN did 
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I think what might need to be addressed are the laws that allow for such scenarios to play out.
EXAMPLE: should someone be able to make a citizens arrest while open carrying? or multiple persons able to make a citizens arrest while open carrying? Should independent witnesses be required to be present during a citizens arrest attempt?..e.t.c…Personally i don’t know the correct answers here, although it does seem like with these laws allowing such scenarios to unfold, we will definitely see more of these unfortunate situations in the future.
This of course does not refer to our “OWN CASTLE” which is undeniably our right to protect.
Question: Is it possible the state of Georgia facilitated the death of Ahmaud Arbery?
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(I think you meant brandish and had a typo.)
Brandishing a firearm isn’t a good idea. We only draw our firearm when we’re in imminent danger of death or grave bodily harm. If the threat ends, then we don’t shoot. But I would argue if we draw our gun and don’t shoot we still should notify the police about the situation so that we do not have the appearance of brandishing for brandishing’s sake.
This whole conversation leads me to the question:
If you see someone stealing something from your neighbors house, which should you shoot - your firearm or pictures?
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That is a very well framed question!
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If no one is in danger, pictures 100%
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I was trying to process why he was going through the construction of the house. He didn’t have any bags or a vehicle. What would he have run away with? I really thought about it and it dawned on me… he was probably just curious about the house being built… It’s fun to look at a house under construction. You can see the lay out of the home, picture what it might look like. Obviously this can’t be proven or disproven. Like you said, he didn’t break any laws.
This has been a frustrating case for me. It’s sad to have life lost and it not make sense 
.
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You need to shoot those pictures.
Funny thing happened yesterday when i was walking my dog. I was headed up my street to the corner and 2 young ladies were walking from the block ahead of me to the same corner on different sides of the cross street. We all got to the opposite corners and all turned west, now on opposite sides of the same street. With my dog sniffing everything, the girls were a couple of strides ahead of me and they walk over to a house, open a bedroom window and craw in the window. All I could do was laugh!.. I didn’t know them but I know one of them live there. I guess they didn’t want mom or dad to know they were absconding!
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I agree with everything you said about the case. I also used this as an example of why you should carry. I would like to think I would have been aware enough to run in the trees; if not I would have taken one of them with me.
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I don’t believe they say Abrey do anything so they were not justified in confronting him. The were wrong from the beginning.
Zimmerman-You can’t start something then claim self defense when you get your arse beat.
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I gave some thought to that too, and came up with just looking out of curiosity, same as you.
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To paraphrase the state law- a private person may effect a citizen’s arrest if they see or have immediate knowledge of the commission of a felony, and the offender is trying to leave the scene. It seems to possibly be a lack of understanding on the part of the men attempting the citizen’s arrest, considering the man committed what appears to be a misdemeanor trespass.
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